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TerryKyle

My Big 2013 Live Google-Less Traffic Generation Experiment

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2 boring hitches that I've run into - the billing systems on Reddit (I want featured ads in the subreddit on Dating) and Plenty of Fish don't accept payment from Bulgarian-addressed credit cards (though it's Mastercard). They don't take PP either. 

 

I've emailed both Support desks but no responses. Grrr.

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I remember reading a while back that the business model of Fat Loss 4 Idiots had flatlined growth-wise because they had basically exhausted all of the relevant (weight loss) venues for exposure. They then thought about it and realised that 50%+ of the population is overweight which opened a lot more marketing opportunities.

 

From there, they started to hit a ton of 'normal' websites (i.e. nothing to do with weight loss) and grew the business substantially as 50% of each venue's audience was probably overweight.

 

Applying a similar logic, apparently something like 40-50% of over 30s (forget where I saw that) are single so even a business site can have a lot of singles there. It's more iffy for sure but worth a try.

 

Yeah that makes sense with certain niches like weight loss / dating you can target outside sites in your niche pretty easily. I'm in a very specific sub-niche within the dating niche but it's country specific so I can't advertise on any site need to target people who are actually interested in people from that country.

 

I'll be interested to see your sales from these business style market places, are you expecting high volumes or just taking a chance?

 

How did you managed to get the products accepted?

 

Update from SundaySEO on May 5 2013:

 

 

[spoiler ALERT: If you come across my marketing materials, please don't share the URLs or info publicly until the end of the experiment]

issu2.png

1. Document sharing sites:

During the week, I converted my 24-slide intro Powerpoint into a PDF (added tons of clickable links to before PDFizing it) and added it to 4 document sharing sites (and with the view stats from the week):

 

issu 63

docstoc 15

slideshare 9

scribd 16

 

The traffic to my landing pages (split between 3) is still single digit days and most of that is still press release traffic (only from SBWire).

2. Plenty of Fish Media Buying

I'm in the process of settimg up a CPM ad account with Plenty Of Fish, I'll report back on the ups and downs of that but I expect my ads to start showing in the next day or two. I used Double Your Dating's most shown PPC ads - found on Mixrank.com - as a template for my POF ads:

 

pof1.png

3. Blog Carnivals

Not for SEO (and wanted to avoid it from a time-expenditure perspective) but for submitting to Blog carnival type sites such as these:

 

blogengage.com

socialbuzzclub.com

 

I have started a blog on a subdomain of my main landing pages. When I'm up to 5 blog posts, I'll start promoting it there.

 

I've found doc sharing sites not worth much effort. I uploaded a ton of pages / chapters to the main sites with clickable links enticing people to come get the full version and they get plenty of views on the site but very few clickthroughs.

 

I tried POF recently but in the end decided not to use it. You can do geo targeting but I couldn't get as specific as I wanted. Again the issue is with my dating niche being particular to guys who like girls from a certain country and I wasn't able to effectively target them I didn't feel.

 

2 boring hitches that I've run into - the billing systems on Reddit (I want featured ads in the subreddit on Dating) and Plenty of Fish don't accept payment from Bulgarian-addressed credit cards (though it's Mastercard). They don't take PP either. 

 

I've emailed both Support desks but no responses. Grrr.

 

Sounds problematic. Way round it?

 

Reddit have stopped me from posting in the 2 most relevant groups and I'm not sure why. I contributed to the community not just posting links to my site which the rules state you are allowed to do anyway. Annoying as they were my second biggest source of traffic. I also got banned from my biggest source of traffic (a niche forum) for having an opinion different from the majority. Now FB won't accept my ads because of 'mature' content, neither will Google adwords, guest posting on 2 of the biggest sites in the niche hardly brought any traffic and the biggest site in the niche blocked me from commenting on the blog post as they see me as a threat. All the clickbank vendors in the niche are morons who aren't building lists so my plan to try and do solo ads to them are wiped out. A few of the niche dating sites have allowed me to place banners but the others have refused as they think my content might upset their female users, pussies!

 

I'm having no luck what so ever trying to advertise this site and rapidly running out of options. So I feel your frustration!

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I remember reading a while back that the business model of Fat Loss 4 Idiots had flatlined growth-wise because they had basically exhausted all of the relevant (weight loss) venues for exposure. They then thought about it and realised that 50%+ of the population is overweight which opened a lot more marketing opportunities.

 

From there, they started to hit a ton of 'normal' websites (i.e. nothing to do with weight loss) and grew the business substantially as 50% of each venue's audience was probably overweight.

 

Applying a similar logic, apparently something like 40-50% of over 30s (forget where I saw that) are single so even a business site can have a lot of singles there. It's more iffy for sure but worth a try.

 

 

Which is exactly the tactic that I have been working on and suggesting. Target the demographic and not the topic which has been what mainstream advertising  has been doing all along. The whole idea of targeting just people who are actively looking for your particular product is much too limiting.

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Which is exactly the tactic that I have been working on and suggesting. Target the demographic and not the topic which has been what mainstream advertising  has been doing all along. The whole idea of targeting just people who are actively looking for your particular product is much too limiting.

 

Indeed. It makes so much sense in most cases. On my current site it doesn't really work though as unless the people I'm targeting are interested in something very specific then they won't have any use for my content ever. So just targeting a specific sex, age, type of person isn't enough sadly.

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Yeah that makes sense with certain niches like weight loss / dating you can target outside sites in your niche pretty easily. I'm in a very specific sub-niche within the dating niche but it's country specific so I can't advertise on any site need to target people who are actually interested in people from that country.

 

I'll be interested to see your sales from these business style market places, are you expecting high volumes or just taking a chance?

 

How did you managed to get the products accepted?

 

 

I've found doc sharing sites not worth much effort. I uploaded a ton of pages / chapters to the main sites with clickable links enticing people to come get the full version and they get plenty of views on the site but very few clickthroughs.

 

I tried POF recently but in the end decided not to use it. You can do geo targeting but I couldn't get as specific as I wanted. Again the issue is with my dating niche being particular to guys who like girls from a certain country and I wasn't able to effectively target them I didn't feel.

 

 

Sounds problematic. Way round it?

 

Reddit have stopped me from posting in the 2 most relevant groups and I'm not sure why. I contributed to the community not just posting links to my site which the rules state you are allowed to do anyway. Annoying as they were my second biggest source of traffic. I also got banned from my biggest source of traffic (a niche forum) for having an opinion different from the majority. Now FB won't accept my ads because of 'mature' content, neither will Google adwords, guest posting on 2 of the biggest sites in the niche hardly brought any traffic and the biggest site in the niche blocked me from commenting on the blog post as they see me as a threat. All the clickbank vendors in the niche are morons who aren't building lists so my plan to try and do solo ads to them are wiped out. A few of the niche dating sites have allowed me to place banners but the others have refused as they think my content might upset their female users, pussies!

 

I'm having no luck what so ever trying to advertise this site and rapidly running out of options. So I feel your frustration!

 

 

KingMonkey - Im confused. You're doing a dating niche traffic experiment too?

Edited by 21clg

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Indeed. It makes so much sense in most cases. On my current site it doesn't really work though as unless the people I'm targeting are interested in something very specific then they won't have any use for my content ever. So just targeting a specific sex, age, type of person isn't enough sadly.

 

Think along the lines of "they also like"   Are there other niches that people who would buy your product would have in common? Looking at your customers what other topics would they be interested in?

 

Can not think of an example off the top of my head but I read an article awhile back that listed the different things the owners of different types of cars had in common. It was actually a bit on the spooky side, in a lot of the cases there was absolutely no visible connection to the car type and the owner interests but there were some strong commonalities that blew my mind. 

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KingMonkey - Im confused. You're doing a dating niche traffic experiment too?

 

No but I've just set up a site in the dating niche and sharing what's worked and not worked for me so far.

 

 

Think along the lines of "they also like"   Are there other niches that people who would buy your product would have in common? Looking at your customers what other topics would they be interested in?

 

Can not think of an example off the top of my head but I read an article awhile back that listed the different things the owners of different types of cars had in common. It was actually a bit on the spooky side, in a lot of the cases there was absolutely no visible connection to the car type and the owner interests but there were some strong commonalities that blew my mind. 

 

In this case again I don't think that works. In most niches it would but not this one. It's hard to explain without going into too much detail about my niche but I'm quite limited to sites strictly within my wider niche to advertise on.

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Glad to hear you're going to be dating other engines for a while ;)

 

My prediction is that you're going to do a little better than you would on Google. It'll be surprising to see the overall turnout. Perhaps your audience will be more committed to you than from those who went through Google as well.

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For long term, don't depends on the Google as the main traffic.

 

There are hard to get traffic from other traffic sources. e.g: document sharing sites - you only get few visitors from one submission to them. However you can scale it up to hundreds or even thousands visitors per month you don't lazy. :D

 

To get maximum result, be diversity variety traffic methods and focus one online business model.

 

Don't forget to build a list for long term.

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Document shares have proved to be an ineffective way to get traffic for me. It's too untargeted and hit and miss.

 

Better to go directly where your target audience already is...i.e. blogs, forums and social media groups / pages.

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It's a bit silly to think you can achieve tons of traffic when you don't either purchase it (Facebook Ads/Adwords/etc) or get it from Google through organic rankings.

 

How do doc sharing sites get the majority of their traffic in the first place? From Google.

 

You can focus on press releases and doc sharing or even video, but you must promote those properties and the easiest way to do that is to build back links so that they rank in Google.

 

So no matter what you do, it always comes down to link buidlng and/or paid advertising.

 

Sure there will always be exceptions but they are way too rare.

 

The only thing that definitely gives free traffic is forum marketing, but that's time consuming if you want to do it good and time = money so it could just as well be spend on SEO or PPC.

Edited by nik0

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It's a bit silly to think you can achieve tons of traffic when you don't either purchase it (Facebook Ads/Adwords/etc) or get it from Google through organic rankings.

 

How do doc sharing sites get the majority of their traffic in the first place? From Google.

 

You can focus on press releases and doc sharing or even video, but you must promote those properties and the easiest way to do that is to build back links so that they rank in Google.

 

So no matter what you do, it always comes down to link buidlng and/or paid advertising.

 

Sure there will always be exceptions but they are way too rare.

 

The only thing that definitely gives free traffic is forum marketing, but that's time consuming if you want to do it good and time = money so it could just as well be spend on SEO or PPC.

 

 

You may want to look at some of what Matt is doing, his Buzzbundle tutorial gives a nice look at the kind of non-Google traffic you can generate without spending a lot of money or time. He is pulling in a fair amount of money off his site and if I remember correctly only about 25% of that is from Google traffic.

 

While most of my focus this year has been on paid ads  I have been spending some time working on social/forum/blog/Q&A marketing for a couple of sites and the results have been pretty good. The downside is that it is hard to scale if you have a lot of sites in different niches as you need someone fairly knowledgeable in the niches you are targeting or it takes up too much time. For someone with just a site  or two or only targeting a specific niche it can work pretty well without spending more than an hour or two a day on it.

 

You can say that most (or all) the sites that I have ads on get traffic from Google and because of that I am indirectly getting my paid traffic from Google. The difference though is firstly they are not getting all their traffic from Google and secondly the traffic is coming from many different sites as opposed to just one (Google). I am about 2/3 the way through my sites in matching my Google traffic numbers with other traffic sources and the average number of sites that I have to advertise on is about 7.5 sites. So if any one of the sites gets 100% of their traffic from Google and takes a dump I only lose 13+% of my non-Google traffic where if I am relying on Google for all my traffic and an update kills my rankings I could lose all my traffic in one fell swoop like what happened to a lot of people both last year and during the updates this year. Diversifying your traffic sources makes a lot of sense when Google is doing their very best to make the rankings fluid. Yes ranking is probably a bit easier than contacting different sites, testing ads, finding sites and ads that give a good ROI etc but not leaving yourself at the mercy of just one company for all your traffic and income just plain makes a lot of sense.

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hey, I was very interested to see the results from Terry but from the 6th of May on he stopped updating. So, the experiment taught us that we cannot get rid of Google?

 

While I am not sure why Terry stopped the updates if you have come to that conclusion you did not read all the posts in this thread.

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While I am not sure why Terry stopped the updates if you have come to that conclusion you did not read all the posts in this thread.

 

I read most parts of it, I know that a lot of other members posted some info about non-google-traffic, but I wanted to know what Terry's conclusion is, after all it was his experiment. 

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This will be an awesome experiment. It would be cool if you tested out how much traffic you would get from blog commenting using a site like feedly.com to sort out the top blogs in your niche and be the top comment on several different posts. I know that lots of times blog commenting is done for SEO purposes but it would be interesting to see how much traffic really comes in from making a quality comment on some of the more popular blogs in your niche. 

 

Anyway, good luck with the experiment. Excited to hear the results!

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Blog commenting can bring in tons of targeted traffic if you use Google Alerts / Buzz Bundle to find new posts as soon as they hit the web and are among the first to comment. I've seen myself get 300+ views from a single comment on a popular blog in the past.

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Yes and no. I have been testing a lot of stuff. Some of the traffic like large traffic buys only seem to work (for me anyway) for fairly specific niches/demographics. For most of my sites I have been working directly with the site owners.

 

Lets say I have a site centered around a gun related product. Now obviously gun and gun related forums and blogs are going to be a good place to run ads but you also have everyone and their brother running competing ads for similar products because well it is an obvious place to run them.

 

So who is going to be my target demographic for my product.

 

Mostly male- so sports related sites might be a good choice, hunting sites are another one though pretty obvious, Car and especially truck related sites would be a good bet.

leans towards rural - so farm and outdoors related sites

Prepper sites would match my demographic as well so I would look at those.

 

Basically I am looking for the sites that the people who would buy my gun product  would also visit.

 

Then I do a bit of keyword research, get me a list and then make a list of the sites that rank for those keywords at which point I work through the list to see which ones look like a good bet.

 

Some of the best sites are the ones in the bottom half of the first page, first half of the second page that do not look overly monetized or at least are not making a lot of money for the owner. A lot of the sites in the top 3-5 want too much for their ads so the ROI is not their which is what the whole thing is about. I like to do a test run when possible and a lot of the highly monetized sites do not really want to do anything "special"

 

So I find a good list of sites to work with, I try to have at least 50 of them but most times it is at least a 100 as a lot will just plain suck traffic wise and I rather not have to go back in the process and find more sites once I get to this stage.

 

Then I pick 5-6 to start running ads on the sites and track what is going on, I use pwik on the sites to track where the traffic and sales comes from. I continue with the sites that generate a positive ROI and cull out the ones that do not. As I remove sites from the active file I add more from the list until I have worked through it.

 

I could do more sites at a time but I have a lot going on and that number seems to work for me. The key starting out is not so much to maximize the good sites but to be ruthless in culling out the negative ROI sites as quick as possible so you only want to test as many sites as you can pay close enough attention to in order to make fairly quick decisions on those sites.

 

The type of links vary as well. I do banner ads, text ads, sig links in forums, blog posts, pretty much any link and spot that will get some clicks.

 

Another good reason to hit those "not so monetized" sites is you can sometimes get ads on the site for no money. I have done product trades, link trades (remember I am not doing the links for seo so reciprocal can be effective for traffic), content trade, and you can pay on a commission basis as well if the site owner is willing and I have a few of those.

 

Hope that helps some.....

 

You linked to this from the other thread but it is a few years old. Is this still working for you? 

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You linked to this from the other thread but it is a few years old. Is this still working for you? 

 

I do not see anything that the last few years would somehow make unworkable but I also interested if you have had to modify your approach at all.

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You linked to this from the other thread but it is a few years old. Is this still working for you? 

 

 

I do not see anything that the last few years would somehow make unworkable but I also interested if you have had to modify your approach at all.

 

No the method is still viable. Targeting a specific demographic is basically the advertising has always worked and is not a new idea. 

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