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TerryKyle

My Big 2013 Live Google-Less Traffic Generation Experiment

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Still figuring out possible upsells that aren't too labour-intensive to create or manage (e.g. Skype coaching is out).

 

Open to good suggestions!

 

Hi Terry - my pal Matt Woodward put me onto your site, and this is a great experiment! In fact, it's just the sort of thing Matt's into!

 

As for a decent upsell with little time commitment, I like Sean Mize's idea of recording a bunch of video trainings - he calls them "webinars" - and knocking them out as a coaching programme.

 

This is pretty flexible, but I've taken his idea of a 13-week programme for my own upcoming launch upsell. So, the weekly recording url is sent out in an email. Once the recordings are done that will be that.

Personally, I will be throwing in an hour of Q and A once a month (in two time zones). Maybe a mix of submitted Q's and a few live ones - with all the popping and crackling that live Q and A implies....

 

The thing is, pitched right I think someone could make this worth $97 or even $197 a month. Perhaps food for thought.

 

The one thing I won't be doing, is adopting Sean's emailing style: he's sent me 188 since September 29th. Tooooo many I'd say LOL

 

I'll watch out for your results - very interesting :)

 

Best, Malc

Edited by Malc Simmonds

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Once you get everything set up maybe also try some deal-type marketing like groupon, local deals and such to give a huge discount but at least help with recognition and brand awareness.  Slickdeals is awesome too (slickdeals.net if you or anyone is unfortunate enough to have never heard of it :)  This site regularly can send enough traffic for a good deal to slow a site WAAAAY down...known by its users as the "Slickdeal Effect."

 

This may have already been said but I get some decent traffic from answering questions on yahoo answers.

 

Thanks E.

 

I assume that you pretend to be an 'independent' reviewer on Yahoo Answers?

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Great initiative, looking forward to the results, personally I don't have much faith in traffic from doc sharing sites, unless you really start to promote the pdf's with back links so that the traffic comes from organic results but please proof me wrong.

 

I'm sure you can get tons of traffic from Youtube though and forum marketing / posting is a very proven method to drive direct traffic.

 

By using the right press release sites, especially pr-log, you can rank quite instantly in Google so that should also be a good traffic generator but would be nice to see the comparison of effort/cost vs amount of visitors!

 

Indeed Nik but sadly the main forums in the dating niche that I've looked at so far don't allow sig links.

 

That's not to say I can't promote in other ways on them but the sig link is a marketing no-brainer for instant traffic. Pity.

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Hi Terry - my pal Matt Woodward put me onto your site, and this is a great experiment! In fact, it's just the sort of thing Matt's into!

 

As for a decent upsell with little time commitment, I like Sean Mize's idea of recording a bunch of video trainings - he calls them "webinars" - and knocking them out as a coaching programme.

 

This is pretty flexible, but I've taken his idea of a 13-week programme for my own upcoming launch upsell. So, the weekly recording url is sent out in an email. Once the recordings are done that will be that.

Personally, I will be throwing in an hour of Q and A once a month (in two time zones). Maybe a mix of submitted Q's and a few live ones - with all the popping and crackling that live Q and A implies....

 

The thing is, pitched right I think someone could make this worth $97 or even $197 a month. Perhaps food for thought.

 

The one thing I won't be doing, is adopting Sean's emailing style: he's sent me 188 since September 29th. Tooooo many I'd say LOL

 

I'll watch out for your results - very interesting :)

 

Best, Malc

 

Thanks Malc and welcome. 

 

The main course is video trainings so I'd ideally like something different to offer as an upsell and something that is automated (i.e. not coaching).

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Thanks Malc and welcome. 

 

The main course is video trainings so I'd ideally like something different to offer as an upsell and something that is automated (i.e. not coaching).

 

Oh yes - needs to be automated, I agree. My 13-week coaching will be on a similar topic as the FE - after all, that's what they want - and sent out as weekly pre-recordings by autoresponder. The only live element will be the monthly q and a. And if that gets too much, it will only take 3 months to ditch it.

 

I am preparing a lesson a day and did lesson 8 yesterday. Yay! 5 to go.

 

Malc :)

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I just wanted to add something to the conversation because I've been doing something similar to Terry's experiment over the last few months

(although in a very different niche).

 

Basically I've been providing tremendous value to a specialized niche and trying to get traffic any way I can....except for Google.

 

I've done guest posting, forums, YouTube etc. And I haven't even targeted any keywords. Just wrote whatever I felt would help my readers.

 

Want to know what's crazy? Google is my #1 source of traffic!

2013-03-04_1229.png

 

I guess those super-white hats are onto something when they say that not worrying about SEO is the best way to do SEO!

 

However, this obviously won't work for every single niche under the sun (payday loans come to mind).

 

But it does go to show that:

1) Google is a traffic beast that's a factor whether we like it or not

2) You can get (some) Google traffic without a lot of SEO-focused effort

 

That being said, to get enough traffic to live off of, you do need to build links for the sake of building links.

Edited by Backlinko

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Thanks Malc and welcome. 

 

The main course is video trainings so I'd ideally like something different to offer as an upsell and something that is automated (i.e. not coaching).

 

 

Oh yes - needs to be automated, I agree. My 13-week coaching will be on a similar topic as the FE - after all, that's what they want - and sent out as weekly pre-recordings by autoresponder. The only live element will be the monthly q and a. And if that gets too much, it will only take 3 months to ditch it.

 

I am preparing a lesson a day and did lesson 8 yesterday. Yay! 5 to go.

 

Malc :)

 

Yeah I've got say Malc has this pretty nailed down on the back end of his funnel from what we have discussed.

 

Sure he's got some tips for you ;)

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Basically I've been providing tremendous value to a specialized niche and trying to get traffic any way I can....except for Google.

 

I've done guest posting, forums, YouTube etc. And I haven't even targeted any keywords. Just wrote whatever I felt would help my readers.

 

Want to know what's crazy? Google is my #1 source of traffic!

I guess those super-white hats are onto something when they say that not worrying about SEO is the best way to do SEO!

 

But it does go to show that:...

That being said, to get enough traffic to live off of, you do need to build links for the sake of building links.

 

Hi Backlinko - That's funny that G ends up being your no 1 traffic source. :)  You don't share numbers and you do say: "you do need to build links for the sake of building links." so, if that's not a typo, that means you think you still need to build links to get decent traffic.

 

Well, on one of my blogs I have been just targeting forums and q and a sites etc over the past couple of months, and of my 1,269 unique visitors in the past month, 6% have been from Google! 70% referral and the rest direct.

 

And I know Matthew Woodward who is also posting on this thread has shared his visitor numbers (and income!) on his blog - matthewwoodward.co.uk - and as I recall he was getting around 10% from Google. (And his visitor numbers are a lot higher than my blog I am referring to.) He, like you, is purposefully NOT going for Google traffic. This, even though he is the most knowledgeable person on backlinks I have ever met and talked to over a few pints (which I have LOL).

 

So I'd say you truly don't need backlinks to get good traffic numbers. (Not that 1,269 is good - but that's only after two months.)

 

M :)

Edited by Malc Simmonds

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It wasn't a typo, Malc. The reason I said that you still need to build links is that to reach serious traffic numbers (AT LEAST 1k visitors per day...unless you're in a high RPM niche like insurance or precious metal investing) you do need some links. Or maybe I should say, links can get you to those traffic numbers faster.

 

There are only so many people on Slideshare, Forums, Youtube, Yahoo Answers etc. It's easy to tap out your ROI from these platforms very, very quickly.

 

Google on the other hand has an almost limitless supply of new people searching every minute of every day.

Edited by Backlinko

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Thanks E.

 

I assume that you pretend to be an 'independent' reviewer on Yahoo Answers?

 

Precisely.  If you spam it you will get blocked.  You can add in your url on occasion and maybe even link to wikipedia and such but not your competitors :)

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It wasn't a typo, Malc. The reason I said that you still need to build links is that to reach serious traffic numbers (AT LEAST 1k visitors per day...unless you're in a high RPM niche like insurance or precious metal investing) you do need some links. Or maybe I should say, links can get you to those traffic numbers faster.

 

There are only so many people on Slideshare, Forums, Youtube, Yahoo Answers etc. It's easy to tap out your ROI from these platforms very, very quickly.

 

Google on the other hand has an almost limitless supply of new people searching every minute of every day.

 

While you obviously need links so that people can find your site you do not need links "for ranking" you can take a site and get plenty of traffic without ranking in Google. I have been going through my sites for months now and so far I have not found a niche that does not have enough non seo/search engine traffic to support the site. So far on every site I have done I have been able to at least match the search engine traffic and income that the site was already getting and all of them so far have had at least 15 top five keywords. Now some have been more work than others and I may well find a niche or niches where I can not do this but not so far and the goal is to finish working all my sites before the end of the year.

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While you obviously need links so that people can find your site you do not need links "for ranking" you can take a site and get plenty of traffic without ranking in Google. I have been going through my sites for months now and so far I have not found a niche that does not have enough non seo/search engine traffic to support the site. So far on every site I have done I have been able to at least match the search engine traffic and income that the site was already getting and all of them so far have had at least 15 top five keywords. Now some have been more work than others and I may well find a niche or niches where I can not do this but not so far and the goal is to finish working all my sites before the end of the year.

 

That's great. Have you found the quality of traffic to be as good as from search engines? I don't have enough data to test this yet.

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Thanks E.

 

I assume that you pretend to be an 'independent' reviewer on Yahoo Answers?

 

I've done quite a bit of Yahoo! Answers and just want to add that the long-term traffic from it is pretty dismal. Even for Best Answers, you usually see a trickle of traffic in the days following the answer. But it fades to almost nothing. At least in my experience. B)

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That's great. Have you found the quality of traffic to be as good as from search engines? I don't have enough data to test this yet.

 

Conversion percentages?

 

It depends on both the niche and the sites that you are using though as general rule it seems to average out to about the same.

 

The process is really closer to doing ppc than seo, you have to do some testing, tweak the ads, tweak the landing pages etc so as each campaign progresses your conversions and sales improve. You have to look at the ROI of each ad and site and decide whether it can be tweaked or not. I have generally been starting out with about 6 sites to target and I will get 1-2 that do really well, 1-2 that suck really bad, with the rest falling somewhere in the middle. I have found that on the sites that suck you are better off from an ROI stand point to just cull them and move on, while you can usually improve them with tweaking you are generally better off spending your time elsewhere. I cut my losses a lot quicker than I did six months ago which has helped a lot from a wasting time standpoint which lets me spend more of my time on the better sites. Like anything else the more you do it the more mistakes you rack up and the more you learn. I would say the biggest improvement over when I first started is being able to make a call with less info than when I started. This allows me to save both time and money during the tweaking stage of the campaigns

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Conversion percentages?

 

It depends on both the niche and the sites that you are using though as general rule it seems to average out to about the same.

 

The process is really closer to doing ppc than seo, you have to do some testing, tweak the ads, tweak the landing pages etc so as each campaign progresses your conversions and sales improve. You have to look at the ROI of each ad and site and decide whether it can be tweaked or not. I have generally been starting out with about 6 sites to target and I will get 1-2 that do really well, 1-2 that suck really bad, with the rest falling somewhere in the middle. I have found that on the sites that suck you are better off from an ROI stand point to just cull them and move on, while you can usually improve them with tweaking you are generally better off spending your time elsewhere. I cut my losses a lot quicker than I did six months ago which has helped a lot from a wasting time standpoint which lets me spend more of my time on the better sites. Like anything else the more you do it the more mistakes you rack up and the more you learn. I would say the biggest improvement over when I first started is being able to make a call with less info than when I started. This allows me to save both time and money during the tweaking stage of the campaigns

 

Great answer. When you say "I have generally been starting out with about 6 sites to target" do you mean money sites or traffic-generating sites?

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Great answer. When you say "I have generally been starting out with about 6 sites to target" do you mean money sites or traffic-generating sites?

 

Traffic generating sites, for each money site I come up with as big as list as possible before I start doing anything and then pick 5-6 of them to try and then continue to tweak them and work through the rest of the list until I get to the end. I keep any that give me enough of a positive ROI to be worth doing and trash the rest.

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Wonderful thread! My personal "Non-Google" traffic sources (with decent success) have been youtube, Pinterest & its clone and yahoo answers. I 've been reading through the comments and I'd like to add that yahoo answers do work. It again depends on the niche and the keywords that you have selected. If you are expecting lots of traffic, yahoo answers is perhaps not the right source. But it is possible to get targeted, highly convertible, buyer traffic through YA. example keyphrases - "where do I buy TERA gold" "Pet vacuum cleaner under $100", etc. People do ask such questions or search for them in YA. The traffic may not be voluminous but it is highly targeted and conversion potential is really high.

 

For youtube, I take a mass upload approach. My videos are simple slideshows but I create each slide in such a way that it individually makes sense to the viewer. I then spin (rearrange) video slides to create unique vids and mass upload them. I use a custom created bot for spinning and uploading. Some vids stick, some don't but I ensure that the info in  the vids is relevant to the niche and correctly optimized.

 

Pinterest was awesome sometime ago but not that great anymore. Nevertheless, it is still a good non google traffic source. But then again, it depends on the niche. I have found another site called wanelo to be really effective for targeted traffic. Has anyone tried wanelo yet?

 

My first post here! Hope someone finds it useful.....

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It wasn't a typo, Malc. The reason I said that you still need to build links is that to reach serious traffic numbers (AT LEAST 1k visitors per day...unless you're in a high RPM niche like insurance or precious metal investing) you do need some links. Or maybe I should say, links can get you to those traffic numbers faster.

 

There are only so many people on Slideshare, Forums, Youtube, Yahoo Answers etc. It's easy to tap out your ROI from these platforms very, very quickly.

 

Google on the other hand has an almost limitless supply of new people searching every minute of every day.

 

Do you feel confident of the volume of Google traffic you can get - in the light of future major algorhithm changes?

I found

Please login or register to see this link.

- you may have seen it - but applying it is too darned complex for me. (And not a little tedious LOL.)

My attraction to non-Google traffic is that, firstly it's quite interesting chatting to people and answering questions (well, some of them), and secondly it will be a growing source of traffic as G starts to give more credit to social signals and so you get more G traffic too.

As for the limitations on traffic from social - the aim will be to get those limited visitors to share your posts etc with their own networks - a much larger pool. If done right, and with superlative content, I think this could become a massive and growing - and self sustaining - source of traffic. (Then you can outsource the q and a site stuff if you want, of course, and go on holiday for a long time.)

 

Of course, it all depends on the niche if it lends itself to this approach.

Best wishes, Malc

Edited by Malc Simmonds

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Wonderful thread! My personal "Non-Google" traffic sources (with decent success) have been youtube, Pinterest & its clone and yahoo answers. I 've been reading through the comments and I'd like to add that yahoo answers do work. It again depends on the niche and the keywords that you have selected. If you are expecting lots of traffic, yahoo answers is perhaps not the right source. But it is possible to get targeted, highly convertible, buyer traffic through YA. example keyphrases - "where do I buy TERA gold" "Pet vacuum cleaner under $100", etc. People do ask such questions or search for them in YA. The traffic may not be voluminous but it is highly targeted and conversion potential is really high.

 

For youtube, I take a mass upload approach. My videos are simple slideshows but I create each slide in such a way that it individually makes sense to the viewer. I then spin (rearrange) video slides to create unique vids and mass upload them. I use a custom created bot for spinning and uploading. Some vids stick, some don't but I ensure that the info in  the vids is relevant to the niche and correctly optimized.

 

Pinterest was awesome sometime ago but not that great anymore. Nevertheless, it is still a good non google traffic source. But then again, it depends on the niche. I have found another site called wanelo to be really effective for targeted traffic. Has anyone tried wanelo yet?

 

My first post here! Hope someone finds it useful.....

 

Thanks for the report of your results mate.

And welcome :)   (Though I am a bit of a newbie myself lol )

 

Malc

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Do you feel confident of the volume of Google traffic you can get - in the light of future major algorhithm changes?

 

Yes and no. I've thrived through both major updates. But I'm well aware that could change if they roll out something brutal.

 

That's why I've been experimenting more with different traffic sources.

 

But in some niches (especially boring, consumer-focused niches like insurance), SEO if your best bet...even with the risk of an update.

Edited by Backlinko

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I just wanted to add something to the conversation because I've been doing something similar to Terry's experiment over the last few months

(although in a very different niche).

 

Basically I've been providing tremendous value to a specialized niche and trying to get traffic any way I can....except for Google.

 

I've done guest posting, forums, YouTube etc. And I haven't even targeted any keywords. Just wrote whatever I felt would help my readers.

 

Want to know what's crazy? Google is my #1 source of traffic!

2013-03-04_1229.png

 

I guess those super-white hats are onto something when they say that not worrying about SEO is the best way to do SEO!

 

However, this obviously won't work for every single niche under the sun (payday loans come to mind).

 

But it does go to show that:

1) Google is a traffic beast that's a factor whether we like it or not

2) You can get (some) Google traffic without a lot of SEO-focused effort

 

That being said, to get enough traffic to live off of, you do need to build links for the sake of building links.

 

Thanks B - feel free to use this experiment thread to add your own findings from what you're doing there.

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Hi Backlinko - That's funny that G ends up being your no 1 traffic source. :)  You don't share numbers and you do say: "you do need to build links for the sake of building links." so, if that's not a typo, that means you think you still need to build links to get decent traffic.

 

Well, on one of my blogs I have been just targeting forums and q and a sites etc over the past couple of months, and of my 1,269 unique visitors in the past month, 6% have been from Google! 70% referral and the rest direct.

 

And I know Matthew Woodward who is also posting on this thread has shared his visitor numbers (and income!) on his blog - matthewwoodward.co.uk - and as I recall he was getting around 10% from Google. (And his visitor numbers are a lot higher than my blog I am referring to.) He, like you, is purposefully NOT going for Google traffic. This, even though he is the most knowledgeable person on backlinks I have ever met and talked to over a few pints (which I have LOL).

 

So I'd say you truly don't need backlinks to get good traffic numbers. (Not that 1,269 is good - but that's only after two months.)

 

M :)

 

Thanks Malc and yes Forum Marketing is one of the best bang-for-buck forms of online marketing going - what Matt has achieved so quickly is perfect proof of that.

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It wasn't a typo, Malc. The reason I said that you still need to build links is that to reach serious traffic numbers (AT LEAST 1k visitors per day...unless you're in a high RPM niche like insurance or precious metal investing) you do need some links. Or maybe I should say, links can get you to those traffic numbers faster.

 

There are only so many people on Slideshare, Forums, Youtube, Yahoo Answers etc. It's easy to tap out your ROI from these platforms very, very quickly.

 

Google on the other hand has an almost limitless supply of new people searching every minute of every day.

 

Thanks B, do you find that when you reach a certain point with Google traffic-wise, that you hit a plateau or wall above which it is hard to get much scale?

 

Apart from Google's neurotic updates, a lot of Internet Marketers turn to paid traffic for extra scale.

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While you obviously need links so that people can find your site you do not need links "for ranking" you can take a site and get plenty of traffic without ranking in Google. I have been going through my sites for months now and so far I have not found a niche that does not have enough non seo/search engine traffic to support the site. So far on every site I have done I have been able to at least match the search engine traffic and income that the site was already getting and all of them so far have had at least 15 top five keywords. Now some have been more work than others and I may well find a niche or niches where I can not do this but not so far and the goal is to finish working all my sites before the end of the year.

 

Sounds like you've been developing specialist expertise in paid traffic Richard - awesome.

 

Feel free to share any crucial findings on that journey here as I too will be exploring some paid traffic angles with this experiment.

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