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Cutts Speaks up on Penguin - “A Success�

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"What that means is that if some of your site is deemed Penguin-like, all of it may suffer. Again, recovery means cleaning up the spam. If you’ve cleaned and still don’t recover, ultimately, you might need to start all over with a fresh site, Cutts said."

Translation:

The demand for aged domains at Godaddy auctions is going up soon.

"After Negative SEO Campaign, A Link Warning

Of course, new messages do go out, which leads to the case of Dan Thies. His site was targeted by some trying to show that negative SEO works. He received an unnatural link warning after this happened. He also lost some rankings. Is this the proof that negative SEO really works?"

Still laughing over this one.

"I asked Cutts about the case, but he declined to comment on Thies’s particular situation. He did say that typically a link warning is a precursor to a ranking drop. If the site fixes the problem and does a reconsideration request quickly enough, that might prevent a drop."

Why decline on commenting on Dan's case? Total FAIL

"I’d also stress again that from what I’ve seen, negative SEO isn’t really what most hit by Penguin should probably be concerned about. It seems far more likely they were hit by spam they were somehow actively involved in, rather than something a competitor did."

But above this he is saying that sites cant be hurt by people spamming them.

If you can hurt your own site, you can easily hurt others. Double Speak FAIL

Edited by RealEcon

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Yeah, the hypocrisy in that article is blatantly obvious.

If you tell us to clean up our spam, what that implies is that the spammy links are conferring a negative effect on our rankings.

Spammy links conferring a negative effect = Negative SEO

Fail indeed.

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If Matt Cutts REALLY thought the biggest changes Google have made to their algo was a success, he'd be publishing it loud and proud on the Google Blog. As it is, it's come out in some off-the-cuff "interview" with Danny Sullivan who only got a couple of quotes off Matt Cutts. And then they mention that the viagra results have been cleaned up? Not when I search....

....and still the SERPS are full of ***** on so many keywords - STILL hacked sites, login pages, script error pages, irrelevant results.

Edited by colourofspring

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I would take note of this quote "Cutts also explained that Penguin was designed to be quite precise, to act against pages when there was an extremely high-confidence of spam being involved. The downside is that some spam might get through, but the upside is that you have fewer false positives."

So take time to make highly quality, natural looking spam and you will be alright. lol..

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The last round of updates have largely targeted off-page links. This does not reflect ON-page spam. I get tired of the equivocal use of the word spam here. A site with great content but dodgy links is "webspam" suddenly as if to imply the content is also spam. At the end of the day, people want quality sites / businesses ranking - off-page factors shouldn't penalise sites because it just ends up penalising many sites that searchers want to see in the top 10s.

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A site with great content but dodgy links is "webspam" suddenly as if to imply the content is also spam. At the end of the day, people want quality sites / businesses ranking - off-page factors shouldn't penalise sites because it just ends up penalising many sites that searchers want to see in the top 10s.

I agree. Google should not penalize for off-site as long anyone is manipulating the results, some use automation, some buy links, even the big companies, "everyone" is manipulating. Ranking without spamming or buying links is impossible these days. The quality of the site is what really matters, but backlinks are no longer a relevant unity measure for quality. Who can "review" a website? penalize a website, the quality of the website? only the visitor, and the visitor is not interested what backlinks a website has as long is a good site.

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Lately I have been looking for real day jobs, as my seo biz is down quite a bit

One job that I talked to a recruiter about this week was a seo project mgr job for bank of america at 100k

Just in staff the project had enough salaries to go over 1m

So its not only us little guys trying to manipulate google

Btw I decided not to apply, and move back into more mainstream it, although doing seo for a fortune 50 company would of been neat to do

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This recent update has made me want to move into other areas of IM and not depend on Google's traffic any more.

Every time I have started to make some cash via natural ranking Google has come by like 1-5 weeks later and done an update that has forced me to start over again.

Can't be doing this over and over again and expect different results THAT is insanity!

I will learn PPC and start promoting stuff on Facebook and build lists and do email promo. Maybe also some PPV.

I might still do a little bit of SEO but it wont be my main focus any more!

Edited by 100k

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I just don't get it. Watching those videos in the OP makes me so angry. Did Matt Cutts not see what happened to Dan Thies? In the niche I am in there is nobody left. NOBODY. This only shows in competitive niches everyone was doing it because that's what it took to rank. Now spam affiliate sites dominate the top 10. Does this help improve the search quality? NO! Maybe, those people with the will and money for SEO had a vested interest in quality. I don't know maybe to convert that traffic into customers?

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Yeah, the hypocrisy in that article is blatantly obvious.

If you tell us to clean up our spam, what that implies is that the spammy links are conferring a negative effect on our rankings.

Spammy links conferring a negative effect = Negative SEO

Fail indeed.

Makes you want to go bowling, and maybe that's the point.

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I just don't get it. Watching those videos in the OP makes me so angry. Did Matt Cutts not see what happened to Dan Thies?

What do you expect the guy is going to do... come out and say "Oh hey yeah, negative SEO is totally possible. Oops our bad, have at it everyone!"

The Penguin update is working as intended alright... it's basically made real SEOs look like they know what they're doing and exposed everyone else as a clown that thought they could go on ranking forever using cheap, ***** links sold by providers.

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What do you expect the guy is going to do... come out and say "Oh hey yeah, negative SEO is totally possible. Oops our bad, have at it everyone!"

The Penguin update is working as intended alright... it's basically made real SEOs look like they know what they're doing and exposed everyone else as a clown that thought they could go on ranking forever using cheap, ***** links sold by providers.

So you say negative SEO now exists in a much more potent form (I read that from your sarcasm), yet the Penguin update is good?

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Also, if Matt Cutts thinks the Penguin update is good (albeit said in just a snatched quote, and not officially said on his Twitter account or Google Blog), then why are the results still dancing around like mad?

Because he has no clue about what he speaks, he is a puppet, speaks what he's masters ask him to...

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So whats the logical flow of SEO going forward, if Google doesnt back down from these updates and deindexings that leave ranking penalties?

People are seriously going to battle it out in the serps.

Google Adwords will be the only winner. And when things get bad enough big brother .gov is going to step in and regulate. They already whetted their appetite with taking down MegaUpload. When enough people start to cry that their livelihoods are being destroyed by "pay for hire" NSEO thugs, we will get to see government folly on a level never before imagined in the form of them trying to regulate backlinks/SEO.

All brought to you by the greed of Google.

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Ive gone through every google update of the last 7 or 8 years and suffered very little damage along the way. Everyone always saying build what links you like to your site after all google cant penalise you for something out of your control....never thought they would release something like this.

Surely its gotta be a once off shot? you cant keep updating a change like this without negative seo taking over

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This recent update has made me want to move into other areas of IM and not depend on Google's traffic any more.

Every time I have started to make some cash via natural ranking Google has come by like 1-5 weeks later and done an update that has forced me to start over again.

Can't be doing this over and over again and expect different results THAT is insanity!

I will learn PPC and start promoting stuff on Facebook and build lists and do email promo. Maybe also some PPV.

I might still do a little bit of SEO but it wont be my main focus any more!

Well Said and Many people learned this including me.

I am learning about PPC and today we are working on Focus on conversions (Conversion Optimizer)

If you dont learn this when doing PPC with google adwords, Google will be very happy to eat all your money. :-)

I think, this should be a good lesson for all people whoever read this thread. I have been in SEO for a long time. Very first time, I was affected (my websites) now.

I have been escaping all the time, None of the past google updates affected me.

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Using penalizations, intimidation methods like the dictators do, Google is publicly recognizing its weakness. They can't fight seo without using force. They act like they know what the users want, they judge our sites in the name of the visitors, and don't let the visitors decide for themselves.

I think they spend more time and resources to eliminate seo (off site) than trying to improve the quality of the search results.

They always said, create great content, but they don't judge our sites by the content and don't care what the users think about our sites. Google is based on presumptions not on real facts.

Edited by Flar

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Quote from Sullivan: "That leads to another important point. Penguin, like Panda, is a filter that gets refreshed from time-to-time. Penguin is not constantly running but rather is used to tag things as spam above-and-beyond Google’s regular spam filtering on a periodic basis."

I'm not an SEO pro.

I've been proceeding with the thought that I've likely been penalized for over optimization of inbound anchor text. In the past I have been link building for about a dozen pages on my site. Have focused on probably 3-6 different anchor texts for each. All variations of my primary keyword phrase. These phrases likely add up to 90-99% of anchor text for each page. I have not gotten the google letter, but all my rankings dropped considerably. Thus why I think over optimization of anchor text is likely my problem.

I'm experimenting with some different methods for building generic links (such as click here, url, site name, read this) on several pages that used to rank well. I've also been targeting two pages with some higher quality links. (Most of my links are low quality, very few that I would consider "good" links.)

Was hoping that if this was all just part of the algorithm, that as I dropped my high % of keyword heavy backlinks, that I would start seeing a rise in my rankings.

But if Sullivan is right and it's a filter, I assume that it all depends on when the filter resets?

How often is this "periodic basis"?

Is that what you guys think too?

I had been planning to give myself till about July 1 to see if I could revive my rankings by diluting anchor text and building some higher quality links.

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Is that what you guys think too?

I had been planning to give myself till about July 1 to see if I could revive my rankings by diluting anchor text and building some higher quality links.

I have given my affiliate websites enough time since penguin to recover, but it's not happening. Tried a couple of solutions but nothing. Websites ranking in yahoo and bing though.

My websites survived all updates since "Florida", including panda but Penguin was the first to slap me realy hard in the past 8 years. So for the ones that are still in Google's index I am now blocking Googlebot in robots.txt and using webmaster tools to deindex them.

Then registering new domains and using old content from the deindexed websites, this time I will not be using anchor text links, just domain and 'generic'. Cant wait another month for penalised sites to come right. I reckon I will have faster results with new domains than trying to fix old ones so I am going ahead NOW. I have nothing to lose at this point, these websites are not ranking in google anymore so I might as well take Matt cuts advice and tank them, create new domain and relaunch.

One or two observations though, I have created 3 EMD websites since penguin, and 3 in the 2 months just before. I have done NO linking for any of them and 5 of them are already on the first page. So from what I have seen EMD's are not dead. It might even be easier to rank and you may need less links to do it. I have not started any backlinking on these yet, but since the keywords are in the EMD and in the <title> I am only going to do generic and url anchor backlinks and VERY few links of them actualy, focusing on quality over quantity.

Will it work? Dunno, but I am going to test and see since I have nothing to lose... And I am starting now. Not waiting for another 2 weeks...

Edited by Origin

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