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    Terry Kyle

    SEO Tools/Vendors Currently Used & Recommended By Terry Kyle

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    11 Kindle Keyword and Self Publishing Software David Chesson $97.00

     

    Ranking Multiple Domains to Own More SERP Real Estate

    SEO Search Whiteboard Friday MOZ SERPs Search Engine Ranking

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    74 replies to this topic

    #61 _Richard

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    Posted 23 June 2017 - 01:24 AM

    So use expensive links last?

     

     

    Not so much expensive (though that is part of it) but links that you do not know the worth of that you want to measure.

     

    If you include links where you want to track their value you have have to have a good way to both see what they can do and a way to measure them to see if they are worth using. Now the obviously mostly applies to links that are more expensive because you are not going to really care about the easy and cheap links.

     

    By waiting until you have a stable fairly high rank you can more easily measure what happens when you add a particular link.  Then you can decide if the price either in time or money is worth the benefit. For instance if you have a link you are paying $50 a month for but it raises your ranking enough to increase your sales $250 a month then the link is worth having. If the equation is the other way than it is obviously not a good idea.  


    Sometimes I have a link in my signature to a product. If I do assume it is an affiliate link and I might make a couple of bucks off it...................................

     

     

     

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    #62 Mysterious Marissa

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    Posted 25 June 2017 - 09:08 PM

    Not so much expensive (though that is part of it) but links that you do not know the worth of that you want to measure.

     

    If you include links where you want to track their value you have have to have a good way to both see what they can do and a way to measure them to see if they are worth using. Now the obviously mostly applies to links that are more expensive because you are not going to really care about the easy and cheap links.

     

    By waiting until you have a stable fairly high rank you can more easily measure what happens when you add a particular link.  Then you can decide if the price either in time or money is worth the benefit. For instance if you have a link you are paying $50 a month for but it raises your ranking enough to increase your sales $250 a month then the link is worth having. If the equation is the other way than it is obviously not a good idea.  

     

    How long do you wait to decide if the ranking is stable? Also do you use paid links for all of your sites? That seems like it would add up in a hurry.



    #63 _Richard

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    Posted 25 June 2017 - 11:17 PM

    How long do you wait to decide if the ranking is stable? Also do you use paid links for all of your sites? That seems like it would add up in a hurry.

     

    Usually a few weeks to a month. 

     

    No but I use the same process with my PBN links. I get the site ranking as high as I can first then push it over the top with a few of my network links. 

     

    The thing about paid links or paid advertising is that how much it costs does not make any difference. If I told you I would give you $2 for every $1 you gave me or told you I would give you $2000 for every $1000 you gave me the return would be the same even though the second one involves a lot more money.  All the money (and time) you invest in your website is an investment and all that matters is that you get back more than you put in. Now we can argue about how much of a return you need which is really determined by opportunity cost but you need to be making a profit. If you are not you have a hobby not a business.  


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    #64 The Snap

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    Posted 28 June 2017 - 04:12 PM

    Usually a few weeks to a month. 

     

    No but I use the same process with my PBN links. I get the site ranking as high as I can first then push it over the top with a few of my network links. 

     

    The thing about paid links or paid advertising is that how much it costs does not make any difference. If I told you I would give you $2 for every $1 you gave me or told you I would give you $2000 for every $1000 you gave me the return would be the same even though the second one involves a lot more money.  All the money (and time) you invest in your website is an investment and all that matters is that you get back more than you put in. Now we can argue about how much of a return you need which is really determined by opportunity cost but you need to be making a profit. If you are not you have a hobby not a business.  

     

    That is kind of harsh. Sometimes it takes awhile for a site to start making a profit so it is still a business even though it is losing money.



    #65 _Richard

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    Posted 29 June 2017 - 03:24 PM

    That is kind of harsh. Sometimes it takes awhile for a site to start making a profit so it is still a business even though it is losing money.

     

    While it is true that you have to invest in the beginning before you see a return there should be consistent progress being made towards profitability right from the start. You also have to be able to say at some point a particular site or niche is a loser and cut your loses and move on. 

     

    You should also do the math before you begin. If everything goes as planned how much income is the site going to make? If everything goes as planned how much will it cost to get to that point? From what I have seen over the years very few people do this before starting a site. They look at search numbers for the keywords but spend little time calculating how much money that translates to. Even fewer people calculate how much they are going to need to spend to get there. Even doing the math you are going to be wrong nearly as often as you are right but if you do not do the math you are setting yourself up for failure. 

     

    The other big problem I see way too often is people not being able to cut their loses because they get emotional tied up in getting a site to work. You have to be able to recognize when a site is not going to work and and be able to stop throwing good money after bad. The sooner you do that the better off you will be. 


    Sometimes I have a link in my signature to a product. If I do assume it is an affiliate link and I might make a couple of bucks off it...................................

     

     

     

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    #66 Max Adam

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    Posted 30 June 2017 - 11:03 PM

    While it is true that you have to invest in the beginning before you see a return there should be consistent progress being made towards profitability right from the start. You also have to be able to say at some point a particular site or niche is a loser and cut your loses and move on. 

     

    You should also do the math before you begin. If everything goes as planned how much income is the site going to make? If everything goes as planned how much will it cost to get to that point? From what I have seen over the years very few people do this before starting a site. They look at search numbers for the keywords but spend little time calculating how much money that translates to. Even fewer people calculate how much they are going to need to spend to get there. Even doing the math you are going to be wrong nearly as often as you are right but if you do not do the math you are setting yourself up for failure. 

     

    The other big problem I see way too often is people not being able to cut their loses because they get emotional tied up in getting a site to work. You have to be able to recognize when a site is not going to work and and be able to stop throwing good money after bad. The sooner you do that the better off you will be. 

     

     

    How long do you wait before you call it a lose and move on? You do not want it to be too quick or you will miss out on a site that will make money. 



    #67 _Richard

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    Posted 02 July 2017 - 03:44 PM

    How long do you wait before you call it a lose and move on? You do not want it to be too quick or you will miss out on a site that will make money. 

     

    Not so much a specific time as progress related to what I thought was going to happen and are things still improving. 

     

    For instance lets say I thought it was going to take me six months to get in the top three. There are two ways this could go on the negative side.

     

    First in six months I am at the top of the second page but have seen steady upward progress even if it has been slower than planned. I will probably give this one some link building.  

     

    Second is in six months I am at the top of the second page but have been sitting in the same exact spot for the last month and a half. I am probably not going to invest any more into this site because it is not moving any longer. 

     

    Now I am not going to delete the site or anything but when I have a site that did not work I am going to stop investing in it. What I normally do is let them sit for six months and see if they get any bump as they aged. If not then I usually just sell the site and move on but if they do get a bump (and this happens often enough) then I take a second look and maybe invest some more time and money into it. 

     

    Also now that I focus a lot more on direct traffic activities it is a more complicated decision because other than looking at just if the site is ranking I am looking into conversions and income as well even before the SEO traffic kicks in. Does the traffic produce what I thought it would? Is there something I can do to make it convert better?

     

    The line is going to be different for every site but at some point you have to cut your loses and move on.  


    Sometimes I have a link in my signature to a product. If I do assume it is an affiliate link and I might make a couple of bucks off it...................................

     

     

     

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    #68 The Snap

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    Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:52 PM

    Not so much a specific time as progress related to what I thought was going to happen and are things still improving. 

     

    For instance lets say I thought it was going to take me six months to get in the top three. There are two ways this could go on the negative side.

     

    First in six months I am at the top of the second page but have seen steady upward progress even if it has been slower than planned. I will probably give this one some link building.  

     

    Second is in six months I am at the top of the second page but have been sitting in the same exact spot for the last month and a half. I am probably not going to invest any more into this site because it is not moving any longer. 

     

    Now I am not going to delete the site or anything but when I have a site that did not work I am going to stop investing in it. What I normally do is let them sit for six months and see if they get any bump as they aged. If not then I usually just sell the site and move on but if they do get a bump (and this happens often enough) then I take a second look and maybe invest some more time and money into it. 

     

    Also now that I focus a lot more on direct traffic activities it is a more complicated decision because other than looking at just if the site is ranking I am looking into conversions and income as well even before the SEO traffic kicks in. Does the traffic produce what I thought it would? Is there something I can do to make it convert better?

     

    The line is going to be different for every site but at some point you have to cut your loses and move on.  

     

    Suppose a site is not going to get to where you want it ranking wise but is making some money from other traffic is there an amount where you say not worth it anyway? Also how do you go about selling your failed sites?



    #69 JoeB

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    Posted 04 July 2017 - 05:04 PM

     

     

    No but I use the same process with my PBN links. I get the site ranking as high as I can first then push it over the top with a few of my network links. 

     

     

    You do not use your pbn as your primary ranking tool? Is there a particular reason for this as most everyone I know uses it first or at least early.



    #70 _Richard

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    Posted 04 July 2017 - 07:05 PM

    Suppose a site is not going to get to where you want it ranking wise but is making some money from other traffic is there an amount where you say not worth it anyway? Also how do you go about selling your failed sites?

     

    As long as the return is positive enough I will keep the site even if it is not getting much SEO traffic (I do have a few of those). I usually sell them on Flippa though to be honest I have not sold any in awhile as I have not been building very many new sites the last couple of years. I only did three last year and one so far this year. 

     

    You do not use your pbn as your primary ranking tool? Is there a particular reason for this as most everyone I know uses it first or at least early.

     

    Multiple reasons. 

     

    1. The less outgoing links to any one particular site from my network makes it harder to find any kind of pattern. In some cases I may only need one or two links which is going to make it much harder to identify a network than if I was using 20-30 links. 

     

    2. The fact that a site has a large number of links before I add my network links makes it more likely that they will be lost in the noise. By the time I get around to adding the links there are already so many that the network links are not going to stand out at all. 

     

    3. Referring to the above about selling sites, I am not going to leave my network links on any site that I sell so if the ranking is mostly dependent on those links when I remove them before selling a site the ranking of the site is going to tank and make the site much less valuable. 

     

    I am extremely protective of my network and have not lost a site or had any problems in years. 


    Sometimes I have a link in my signature to a product. If I do assume it is an affiliate link and I might make a couple of bucks off it...................................

     

     

     

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    #71 Max Adam

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    Posted 06 July 2017 - 01:03 PM

    Not so much a specific time as progress related to what I thought was going to happen and are things still improving. 

     

    For instance lets say I thought it was going to take me six months to get in the top three. There are two ways this could go on the negative side.

     

    First in six months I am at the top of the second page but have seen steady upward progress even if it has been slower than planned. I will probably give this one some link building.  

     

    Second is in six months I am at the top of the second page but have been sitting in the same exact spot for the last month and a half. I am probably not going to invest any more into this site because it is not moving any longer. 

     

    Now I am not going to delete the site or anything but when I have a site that did not work I am going to stop investing in it. What I normally do is let them sit for six months and see if they get any bump as they aged. If not then I usually just sell the site and move on but if they do get a bump (and this happens often enough) then I take a second look and maybe invest some more time and money into it. 

     

    Also now that I focus a lot more on direct traffic activities it is a more complicated decision because other than looking at just if the site is ranking I am looking into conversions and income as well even before the SEO traffic kicks in. Does the traffic produce what I thought it would? Is there something I can do to make it convert better?

     

    The line is going to be different for every site but at some point you have to cut your loses and move on.  

     

    Educational response as usual thanks!

     

    As long as the return is positive enough I will keep the site even if it is not getting much SEO traffic (I do have a few of those). I usually sell them on Flippa though to be honest I have not sold any in awhile as I have not been building very many new sites the last couple of years. I only did three last year and one so far this year. 

     

     

    Multiple reasons. 

     

    1. The less outgoing links to any one particular site from my network makes it harder to find any kind of pattern. In some cases I may only need one or two links which is going to make it much harder to identify a network than if I was using 20-30 links. 

     

    2. The fact that a site has a large number of links before I add my network links makes it more likely that they will be lost in the noise. By the time I get around to adding the links there are already so many that the network links are not going to stand out at all. 

     

    3. Referring to the above about selling sites, I am not going to leave my network links on any site that I sell so if the ranking is mostly dependent on those links when I remove them before selling a site the ranking of the site is going to tank and make the site much less valuable. 

     

    I am extremely protective of my network and have not lost a site or had any problems in years. 

     

    Why do you have to remove your links from sites if you sell them? Even if they only drop a page they are still going to be worth less so it costs you money.



    #72 _Richard

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    Posted 06 July 2017 - 02:26 PM

    Educational response as usual thanks!

     

     

    Why do you have to remove your links from sites if you sell them? Even if they only drop a page they are still going to be worth less so it costs you money.

     

    Because I do not link out from my network to any site that is not 100% under my control in order to keep the network safe. I have no idea what the buyer is going to do with the site after the sale, what kind of tracking software, what outbound links, what kind of content. I use my network for my sites and I have a couple of long term clients where I do all the web dev and hosting so I control the sites and will know if something changes that might affect my network. I have way more invested in my network than any additional money I might make because a site I sell is ranking higher and remember these are sites that I thought were not making enough money so it is not like we are talking huge amounts of dollars here. 


    Sometimes I have a link in my signature to a product. If I do assume it is an affiliate link and I might make a couple of bucks off it...................................

     

     

     

    All My Forum Topics


    #73 Max Adam

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    Posted 07 July 2017 - 03:40 PM

    Because I do not link out from my network to any site that is not 100% under my control in order to keep the network safe. I have no idea what the buyer is going to do with the site after the sale, what kind of tracking software, what outbound links, what kind of content. I use my network for my sites and I have a couple of long term clients where I do all the web dev and hosting so I control the sites and will know if something changes that might affect my network. I have way more invested in my network than any additional money I might make because a site I sell is ranking higher and remember these are sites that I thought were not making enough money so it is not like we are talking huge amounts of dollars here. 

     

    Protecting the bigger investment makes sense I guess since I see so many networks putting links on other peoples sites that I did not see linking to a few sites that risky.



    #74 _Richard

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    Posted 07 July 2017 - 04:57 PM

    Protecting the bigger investment makes sense I guess since I see so many networks putting links on other peoples sites that I did not see linking to a few sites that risky.

     

     

    While I accept some risk in my link building and SEO activities I am not willing to do so when it comes to my network. I have seem way too many of them collapse and I have too much time and money invested in them to take any chances. Also those sellers selling PBN links are mislabeling what they are selling. The P stands for Private and if you are selling the links the networks is not private.  


    Sometimes I have a link in my signature to a product. If I do assume it is an affiliate link and I might make a couple of bucks off it...................................

     

     

     

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    #75 Max Adam

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    Posted 10 July 2017 - 01:42 AM

    While I accept some risk in my link building and SEO activities I am not willing to do so when it comes to my network. I have seem way too many of them collapse and I have too much time and money invested in them to take any chances. Also those sellers selling PBN links are mislabeling what they are selling. The P stands for Private and if you are selling the links the networks is not private.  

     

    Protecting the bigger investment makes sense I just had not thought of having a few links to sites as being risky. 







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