[ringer69]

Hi guys,
Like lots of you here , I have spent a lot of time and effort on High PR Homepage Networks over the years. Some have been very good, some have been terrible.
I really dont trust Page Rank that much and can see where the whole PR network can be completely abused - too many high PR domains without any links, fake PR easily covered up etc etc.

I have just started reading up on Mozrank and Page Authority and have been finding lots of PR N/A and PR0 websites with good Mozrank and excellent Page Authority.

Are we placing too much emphasis on Pagerank? Would a network of PR N/A and 0 with excellent Mozrank and Page Authority out rank a high PR network full of websites with little link authority?
Has anybody researched deep into this?
I am considering putting together a network based on Page Authority and Mozrank as an experiment in the New Year.
What do you all think?

Edited by ringer69, 21 December 2011 - 03:33.

[Insurgo]

I think that's a great idea and would definitely be interested in joining. Google have themselves admitted that pagerank is a defunct metric but I think they keep it as a way to keep SEO guys happy because they like to see that little number steadily increasing.

While PR may not be a factor in Googles ranking process, I still use PR as a way to guage a domains authority because at the end of the day to get that PR they have, or had, links pointing to their site. Only problem we have is that the PR that we see is only updated when Google feels like it so some real research has to be done to discover if a page/domain still deserves it's PR.

[ARVolund]

ringer69, on 20 December 2011 - 04:15, said:

Hi guys,
Like lots of you here , I have spent a lot of time and effort on High PR Homepage Networks over the years. Some have been very good, some have been terrible.
I really dont trust Page Rank that much and can see where the whole PR network can be completely abused - too many high PR domains without any links, fake PR easily covered up etc etc.

I have just started reading up on Mozrank and Page Authority and have been finding lots of PR N/A and PR0 websites with good Mozrank and excellent Page Authority.

Are we placing too much emphasis on Pagerank? Would a network of PR N/A and 0 with excellent Mozrank and Page Authority out rank a high PR network full of websites with little link authority?
Has anybody researched deep into this?
I am considering putting together a network based on Page Authority and Mozrank as an experiment in the New Year.
What do you all think?

The problem is we really do not have any idea of how mozrank compares to what Google is looking at. I looked at a domain the other day that had a mozrank of 48 but no PR and no indexed pages. It looked like it had been deindexed recently by Google. I think you can use it as one criteria when you are looking at domains but I do not really believe you can base decisions on it by itself instead of PR.


I have the same problem with a lot of these third party index checkers as well. While there was not really a direct correlation between yahoo and google at least they were in the same business of ranking websites. These other companies are in the business of finding and indexing as many pages as possible for the seo crowd which is another matter altogether. We like the ones that find the most of our links but really what we need is the one that comes closest to what Google indexes and having some third party site tell us they have found all our links does not really do that.

[angelus]

MozRank is a very good indicator. However it might not be a good idea to replace it in place of Pagerank. Just like Pagerank, MozRank is not real time either. The links they considered a month ago, might not be still alive. So you can see a high MozRank low PR domain as well as a high PR low MozRank domain. The ideal is to combine both of this indicators and use Moz data to supplement your decision in analyzing high PR domains. Most of the time i still believe,  manually verify the links pointing to the domain, is the only good solution.

[ringer69]

Im quite interested to see that Automatic Backlinks have changed from using Google Pagerank as a metric to using MozRank:
http://www.automaticbacklinks.com/blog/changing-from-pagerank-to-mozrank-128/

Anyone know of any other SEO professionals changing over from PR to mozRank ??

I have been using this tool to check for page authority, domain authority, mozrank and juice passing external links:
http://mozcheck.com/

I am considering building a network based on these metrics instead of PR - it would be really interesting to see whether the network could successfully push our keywords up the Google pages.

Has anyone else experience of working with the outcomes from this mozcheck.com tool? From what I've read, the outcome for Mozrank  (0 to 10) is on a par with Page Rank. However I am unsure of what is a good "score" concerning Page Authority or Domain Authority.

This could be a fairly interesting experiment for us here.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Edited by ringer69, 20 December 2011 - 13:02.

[bluguy]

What’s the / is there a correlation between MozRank and actual SERP position?

A higher SERP position is a great indicator of site authority as seen by G.

Links from high authority sites are very effective.

[trakker]

bluguy, on 20 December 2011 - 12:30, said:

What’s the / is there a correlation between MozRank and actual SERP position?

A higher SERP position is a great indicator of site authority as seen by G.

Links from high authority sites are very effective.

I've been using domain authority to evaluate domains I buy for my network for quite a while now, and find it usually is more accurate guide of the "strength" of a domain.

It is certainly a good check to root out those flaky or fake PR rankings.

I also use majesticseo and find those rankings even more accurate.  My personal technique is to run report and add the "ACRank" of the top 10 backlinks.  It is usually close to the domain/page authority score that Open Site Explorer has for the domain.

Majesticseo and OSE almost never will have a high score for a  crappy domain with a just a couple of backlinks, so is much better indicator than PR IMO.

It IS very irratating that the high PR networks buy absolute crap domains as long as they have high PR.  In fact I just  made the time to check on the domains in networks I subscribed to and had to cancel all but one subscription as the domains  were nearly worthless as far as backlinks.

Edited by trakker, 20 December 2011 - 14:18.

[ringer69]

Hi Tracker,
Thanks for your interesting opinion on this subject.
Have the domains you have chosen (with Domain Authority) been low and N/A PR domains ? Have you had decent Serp movement from them ? Have they been as good/better than when using High PR networks on these forums?
What would you consider a good "score" for Page Authority and Domain Authority - I have read that we should aim for 40 + here.
Id appreciate as much advice as possible here.
I'd really like to start an experiment on here by creating a network to challenge all the High PR Networks by using low and N/A domains with high Page/Domain Authority instead.
Thanks
Ringer

[trakker]

ringer69, on 20 December 2011 - 14:45, said:

Hi Tracker,
Thanks for your interesting opinion on this subject.
Have the domains you have chosen (with Domain Authority) been low and N/A PR domains ? Have you had decent Serp movement from them ? Have they been as good/better than when using High PR networks on these forums?
What would you consider a good "score" for Page Authority and Domain Authority - I have read that we should aim for 40 + here.
Id appreciate as much advice as possible here.
I'd really like to start an experiment on here by creating a network to challenge all the High PR Networks by using low and N/A domains with high Page/Domain Authority instead.
Thanks
Ringer

I don't waste my time on domains less than 40 DA.  Usually 5o or more.  

But mostly looking for strong sites that are undervalued.  High DA and majesctic scores with lower PR are ideal.  Sometimes you see a faulty PR0 that has lots of good backlinks.  Those often go for $69 on namejet,but are strong and will rank themselves for posts and help others rank.  

But is far more common to find a bargain  PR4 that "should" be a PR6  (DA of 55+).  Or CRAP PR6   with DA in the 20's. Or the PR7 with DA of 34 that sold for $1400 today that I'd guess will drop to PR4 on next update.

Links from my sites are probably 10x stronger than those from HPBL networks as they often use PR4,5,6 sites that have just a few backlinks.  their sites often drop PR on next update.  They also have no trusted backlinks, like from REAL edus, gov, mil, and trusted orgs.  

So yes, links from strong domains with lower PR are much better than links from Higher PR  if that high PR is faulty, which is usually the case since they buy the cheapest PR4,5,6 the can get.

You could certainly sell spots on a high DA network,  making the DA and majestic score a big part of the pitch.    But I see those as additional factors.  It might be hard to convince enough people to TOTALLY ignore PR and invest in PR0 or PR1 links just becuase of the DA score. You and I may know the value, but the herd may  shout you down.

As for serps movements - my personal network is about 90% of my backlinks  for 4+ years, and I've done very well with those.  Most of the HPBL networks I've joined have helped, but you can look at the backlinks of some of my money sites  (using  majestic or OSE ) and see the top 100+ backlinks are from my network, while 99% of the  the  expensive PR4,5,6 backlinks from networks are  listed below my personal sites.

Edited by trakker, 20 December 2011 - 15:48.

[ringer69]

Hi Trakker
Thanks for the superb advice!!

Now that I have researched further into this, and taken on some of the advice from this thread, I am going to research further into Page Authority/Domain Authority. I wont be looking further into mozRank - Page Authority seems to be one of the key metrics here instead.

I am very interested in running an experiment using very low to N/A PR domains that have high Page Authority/Domain Authority scores.
I plan to start building a 30 domain network in the New Year and will be offering a months free trial (I already own a PR Network on another forum  so have experience in building these types of networks).  I'll be offering the free months trial to everyone as long as they are willing to share all of their findings here with us. We'll look into what factors we need to be collecting - SERP movement, keyword competition etc (any advice here would be appreciated).

I am definitely not looking to dismiss HPBL's (like I said, I own one myself), I just believe that we are too quick to dismiss any backlinks due to low PR, when I believe that the PR is not the major factor in the power of these networks. I believe these High Page Authority Homepage Networks can become as much a  part of our all round SEO work as HPBL's are (which Im sure they already are for a lot of the more professional SEO guys here).

Again, any advice would be great, and please let me know if you would like to be a part of this experiment.

Thanks
Ringer

[ARVolund]

Make sure those N/A domains are indexed. I have run across a few that had high mozrank but had been deindexed by Google.

ringer69, on 21 December 2011 - 02:12, said:

Hi Trakker
Thanks for the superb advice!!

Now that I have researched further into this, and taken on some of the advice from this thread, I am going to research further into Page Authority/Domain Authority. I wont be looking further into mozRank - Page Authority seems to be one of the key metrics here instead.

I am very interested in running an experiment using very low to N/A PR domains that have high Page Authority/Domain Authority scores.
I plan to start building a 30 domain network in the New Year and will be offering a months free trial (I already own a PR Network on another forum  so have experience in building these types of networks).  I'll be offering the free months trial to everyone as long as they are willing to share all of their findings here with us. We'll look into what factors we need to be collecting - SERP movement, keyword competition etc (any advice here would be appreciated).

I am definitely not looking to dismiss HPBL's (like I said, I own one myself), I just believe that we are too quick to dismiss any backlinks due to low PR, when I believe that the PR is not the major factor in the power of these networks. I believe these High Page Authority Homepage Networks can become as much a  part of our all round SEO work as HPBL's are (which Im sure they already are for a lot of the more professional SEO guys here).

Again, any advice would be great, and please let me know if you would like to be a part of this experiment.

Thanks
Ringer

[ringer69]

Thanks ARVolund - its the first thing I check. Ive been burnt in the past years ago when I naively brought a stack of deindexed domans!! It was gut wrenching!!
Also, I will be avoiding mozRank now and just searching for high Page Authority/Domain Authority above 40, as advised by Trakker.

Edited by ringer69, 21 December 2011 - 02:45.

[ringer69]

Hi Guys,
I have now removed "Mozrank" from the thread title. This is no longer a factor here. I will be creating an experimental network here based on Domain Authority / Page Authority, without any emphasis on Mozrank (as stated earlier) or Page Rank. I will be looking to use domains with low to zero PR and high (40+) Domain or Page Authority to see if they can rank keywords as effectively as HPBL's.

[Jeremy Wilson]

Hey Guys,

Interesting discussion.

Would their be any interest in something like a daily list of domains with high domain and page authority?   I already have access to all the daily domain auction data and it shouldn't be too much problem to throw something together.

I was thinking I would just scan all domains each day with pagerank and grab their domain and page authority scores.  It would be about 3k domains daily to scan.  Just an idea that might be helpful to you.

[quinnmodel]

Wow I Just Checked one of my domains... Google ABSOLUTELY loves this domain. for Some reason it ranks keywords with high competition so fast. In fact one keyword that i tried ranking last  year took me about a year to get front page, This Domain took me 2 weeks and has stayed on top ever since... Its Mozrank is NOT good. So my conclusion is that Mozrank is NOT a good refection of what Giggles considers authority.  This Domain Shocks me every time how much the Big G loves it and Mozrank gives it a low score.....  So Thats my conclusiuon

Edited by quinnmodel, 23 December 2011 - 15:23.

[ringer69]

Hi,
Did you run the domain through mozcheck.com? What page authority and domain authority score did it get? Were either of them 40+?

Update: I now have 15 domains with 40+ page or domain authority. I should pick up another 15 or so over the Christmas period. I will then create a network as planned and then will start testing to see whether High Page authority/low Page Rank networks can rank keywords as well as some of the high page rank networks available on these forums.
I'm looking for 10 people to test with. I'll be offering a free spot on the network for life for them. Anybody who is interested please let me know.
Thanks
Ringer

Edited by ringer69, 24 December 2011 - 05:05.

[ringer69]

Hi Jeremy,
Thanks for the post. What software do you use to search for this?

[Jeremy Wilson]

Hey Ringer69,

I don't have any software as of yet that performs these checks specifically for DA and PA.  I do have software that checks expiring domains daily for numerous metrics just not those but it would be easy to create a simple script that runs the domains with pagerank through the seomoz api to check for DA and PA.

[trakker]

Hey Ringer69,

I'd definately be interested in links from your network.  Will pay, or trade you with mine of similar DA, since I'm convinced google PR is often flaky.   Of course that is assuming your sites are not de-indexed

Most of my sites  generally have PR4-6, but I do occasionally pick up PR N/A sites with good DA (indexed and good backlinks, or course).

Nice job picking up 15 sites so fast!

Edited by trakker, 24 December 2011 - 12:09.

[ARVolund]

More than happy to join in on the testing. Sent you a PM