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  • The future of HBPL services......!

    HPBL Networks What do you think?

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    54 replies to this topic

    #21 ARVolund

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    Posted 12 February 2012 - 14:15

    View Postseodisaster, on 12 February 2012 - 04:52, said:

    If you are having the same exact OBL,  same CMS platform  on every network you are leaving a footprint and yes I am constantly testing things out in my lab to see what works and what not. Evidence? I prefer to keep things in the file cabinet.

    Ok I agree with all that but that has nothing at all to do with the post of yours that I quoted.

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    HPBL works but you need to keep you external link extremely low < (5) in order to fly under The radar. Building your own network is the way to go for 2012

    You very clearly said that HPBLs need to have extremely low obls <5

    My question is and was. Where did you get that number? It is a ridiculously low number and you put it out there as something that needs to be done.

    If you are going to put numbers like that out there you should have something to back them up, otherwise you are just pulling them out of thin air and they are meaningless and misleading.

    #22 mofoe

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    Posted 13 February 2012 - 02:10

    If the OBL vary does not matter. The footprint is the same sites, the spun crap, default layouts, no images. Keep trying to make it as unnatural as possible and it will tank. Stop being lazy is what comes to mind.

    #23 Parto

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    Posted 13 February 2012 - 03:12

    The footprint for a algorithm to find HBPL sites may be to look for domains without any social authority that point out to 50-100 sites. Or to make things easier, google a niche and reverse some domains on top of the hits list. It's weird having 50-100 front pages linking to your money site.

    If it's looked over by a human your screwed anyway, so we are looking for ways to dodge the algo. Wouldn't it just be better to, once again, do link exchanges? Get a PR4 domain, link it to 15 other dudes money sites and get 15 links to your money sites in return. If they get deindexed you get a new one, its not leaving a huge footprint and the variety of links will be much more and its a lot cheaper to run.

    #24 brandonbaker

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    Posted 13 February 2012 - 12:39

    Staying exactly one step ahead of Google was exactly what got us into this mess. Networks that thrive and survive will stay 6, 7 steps ahead of Google. Anything less than that is just setting yourself up for major financial losses sometime down the line.

    Edited by Pilot, 08 March 2012 - 23:00.

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    #25 jeancarlin

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    Posted 13 February 2012 - 13:30

    Here's my 2 cents on HPBL 2.0 (sort of). I think that the static nature of these sites are a problem that is going to get worse.

    If money were no object, this is how I would build a new HPBL network.

    1. Get those juicy higher PR domains
    2. Put them into high level categories (business, sports, arts, fashion, health, etc)
    3. Hire professional writers to write high quality blog posts for each category. Have a publisher for each category who approves content before it goes live.
    4. The writers are directed to link to member sites and will write content that presells the landing page and gets real people to click the links.
    5. No more than 50% of blog posts link to members sites
    6. No more than 25% of blog posts link to related blogs and sites
    7. No more than 25% of blog posts have no links and are spider bait
    8. All the usual random site stuff (templates, hosting, # posts on home page, etc).

    When attracting members to the network you reveal the categories and how many sites belong to each category. The members then pay a monthly fee per category. Allow members to have a list of 10 or 20 landing pages per sponsored category. Limit it to perhaps 5 pages per domain and encourage tier 1 sites as well. All sites linked to need to be approved in advance (even related non-member sites).

    The maximum # of members would be related to the total number of sites per category.

    So, as a member, I am paying perhaps $10 or $20 a month per site. But the sites are going to be good blogs. The content is going to be well written by someone whose goal is to presell my landing pages. The content is going to also talk about what's new in my industry. Each site in the network is built to get organic traffic and could be monetized and fees paid back to members. Additionally flash banners promoting the members sites could be sold for an additional fee (100x100 box for example).

    I would rather pay $100 a month for shared postings on 10 authority blogs that are designed to get traffic than 100 links on a static HPBL network that most likely will not survive 12 months in the wild.

    Biggest challenges are 1) management and 2) costs.

    1) in addition to managing sites you are also managing publishers and bloggers. Will require more time to manage
    2) in addition to paying for the usual hosting and domains, you also need a couple of full time bloggers and at least one publisher. I would estimate each site would need at least one new post per day. I would also estimate each blogger could write 10 to 15 posts per day. The publisher could probably handle 50-60 posts per day (proof reading, dupe checking, etc). So one blogger could handle a max of 15 sites and one publisher could handle up to 60 sites. So for a network of 60 sites, you would need 4 bloggers and 1 publisher. At a cost of around $400-$500 per month for the blogger and $600-$700 for the publisher I am ballparking $2200-$2700 per month across 60 sites which works out to $37 to $45 per site. And if each site is supported by say 10 to 20 members, you get a reasonable member fee and healthy profit margin at the same time. Those costs are based on off shore rates for full time bloggers.

    What say you all?

    JC.

    Edited by jeancarlin, 13 February 2012 - 13:33.


    #26 mofoe

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    Posted 14 February 2012 - 01:07

    ^^^^^you can invite guest posters per section for "free"

    #27 DailyMail

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    Posted 14 February 2012 - 03:13

    These days I only use those who provide me with URLs and has low OBL, and they still work great, and instantly replacing deindexed domains. I am not buying anymore networks who want protect privacy etc and I have no clue what I am paying for.

    I can see a future in HPBL networks getting automated like ALN/FBL, where its much more variation on each homepage, and not the same 30 links on 30 other sites.

    I am also building my own private networks for personal use.

    #28 Nanny Rose

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    Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:20

    OK, so if I was to summarise roughly the consensus on this thread.....

    1) OBL's should be low, but there's little demand for super low OBL networks

    2) Unique content is a MUST, as spun content networks seem to get deindexed.

    3) Randomising the OBL profile seems to be a high priority.

    We already do all of this, but I think we need to make more of an effort to ensure the OBL's are randomised better!

    Thanks for all the replies, it's been an interesting thread! :)

    #29 Nanny Rose

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    Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:26

    I thought i'd bump this as given eveything that's happened over the last week or 2, i'd bet that opinions have seriously changed on this......

    We have a number of huge changes for our next networks incorporating many of the suggestions in this thread.

    What do you guys think is the future now? :)

    #30 darthbis

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    Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:56

    My opinion is the future is exactly like what you described in the thread you opened last week on your forum and the exactly like what terry mentioned in his doomsday email about the homepage backlinks network.  Must be 100% legit looking real sites with limite OBL's that are thematically related.  Its just to risky otherwise, especially after seeing that Google is not only deindexing the sites in these networks but not it appears they are giving harsh keyword penalties to the peope getting the links.

    Kinda dumb they would penalize the site recieving the links as that makes it easy to slam your competition but i think they just crossed that line and dont really care anymore.  I for one am going to be very cautious about which HPBL networks i get involved with now.  After seeing a decent number of my sites get slammed over the weekend! the risk is just too high

    #31 ARVolund

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    Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:10

    While I am still up in the air about what is a good number of OBLs I really do not agree with spun content being an issue. The only way that spun content is a problem is if a live person is already looking at your network sites and if that is the case you are pretty much screwed already. Now if you do not have enough unique content on the sites becuase you are not spinnning enough then yes that could be a problem I just do not see the bots picking up on well spun content.

    The OBL issue is I think more of a randomizing issue rather than a numbers issue. There are lots of sites and blogs with fairly large numbers of OBLs and they are not getting de-indexed so I just do not see that there is "some number" that raises a red flag.

    Another factor that seems to me is probably a pretty big issue is how many OBL targets a group of sites have in common. You have 10-50 sites all linking out to  even 75-80% the same sites and that is a huge footprint. My guess is Google is using this as the best first way to find networks and then looking at other factors after that.  

    View PostNanny Rose, on 14 February 2012 - 06:20, said:

    OK, so if I was to summarise roughly the consensus on this thread.....

    1) OBL's should be low, but there's little demand for super low OBL networks

    2) Unique content is a MUST, as spun content networks seem to get deindexed.

    3) Randomising the OBL profile seems to be a high priority.

    We already do all of this, but I think we need to make more of an effort to ensure the OBL's are randomised better!

    Thanks for all the replies, it's been an interesting thread! :)


    #32 maretus

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    Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:27

    I've felt for a long time that HPBL networks needed to change the way they do things. They were entirely too easy to set up and worked too well for them to last forever.

    I agree with some of the ideas in this thread, but I haven't seen much mention of removing footprints which are one of the primary reasons networks get picked up and de-indexed.

    One thing that we've been working on and that is working very well is randomizing the links on all of our networks. No two sites on our networks will have the same customer links which eliminates the footprint that is so common among HPBL networks.

    On top of randomizing our links, we have also incorporated a few other traits that I think HPBL networks should consider is beefing up their sites. Up until this point, HPBL networks have consisted of basically 1 page sites full of links with very little substance. Building these sites out into real, legitimate sites is imperative. All of our sites have been built out into 10+ pages of related content with affiliate links, pictures, videos, banners, and authority links pointing out to sites like webmd, wikipedia, about.com, and other high authority sites.

    I also agree that the number of OBL's needs to be reduced, but I don't think that 5 to 10 links means anything. There are tons of legitimate sites out there with way more than 5 to 10 links. What matters, is if the links are randomized and leave no traceable footprint.

    Homepage backlinks how they were done before just couldn't last forever. They need to change their tactics and really be done with quality in mind, not just how many high PR sites can I build out? We spend hours building each site and money not just on the domain, but on content for the domain as well. No more 1 page sites full of links. Think sites that look indistinguishable from a regular site. Networks need to evolve to survive and to thrive. We are evolving our network and it shows. Our customers are still ranking well and our sites are still in the index.

    High PR links are always going to work, but how they are done will change. I think its for the better as it will bring out more quality in the "industry".

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    #33 richbell20

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 05:52

    Great discussion.

    I agree that the number of OBL and the footprint they leave is a big factor, as is hosting.

    I don't agree that adding fresh content to a hpbl site will help maintain a site's PR or prevent it from being deindexed, or continually building links to you hpbl posts. I tink both will end up being a wate of time and money.

    I'm sure there are plenty of super high, authority goverment-type sites that havent been updated in years. Providing you choose a domain with a high quality backlink profile you should be fine.

    this is the kind of site I would choose for my own network - http://worldwaterday2011.org/. Site's like these are never going to get updated but their links will most-likley remain. Plus I can scrape all that content and the great site design. I'd then add my links within content that are naturally hidden behind tabs - Googlebot still reads the links as if they were in the open but any suspicious human visitors won't see them without some clicking effort.

    #34 abby013

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 19:08

    HPBL are killed because of using class C ips....

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    #35 peterk

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 22:59

    View Postabby013, on 28 February 2012 - 19:08, said:

    HPBL are killed because of using class C ips....

    That doesn't make any sense...

    #36 mofoe

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    Posted 29 February 2012 - 00:16

    View Postabby013, on 28 February 2012 - 19:08, said:

    HPBL are killed because of using class C ips....

    While that could be a factor it is not the main one. The main one is the footprint of ALL the same domains on ALL the same sites.

    #37 abby013

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    Posted 29 February 2012 - 00:44

    View Postmofoe, on 29 February 2012 - 00:16, said:

    While that could be a factor it is not the main one. The main one is the footprint of ALL the same domains on ALL the same sites.

    Correct me if im wrong...

    If ip is aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd, Class C ips are ips that differ on the ddd right?

    Just imagine high pr websites hosted on several ips that differ only on ddd that are link to same sites....

    Plus, greg owner of fbl said that,
    there is a fbl user which his websites are all deindex after moving to a new host...

    Edited by abby013, 29 February 2012 - 00:45.

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    #38 ARVolund

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    Posted 29 February 2012 - 03:10

    View Postabby013, on 29 February 2012 - 00:44, said:



    Correct me if im wrong...

    If ip is aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd, Class C ips are ips that differ on the ddd right?

    Just imagine high pr websites hosted on several ips that differ only on ddd that are link to same sites....

    Plus, greg owner of fbl said that,
    there is a fbl user which his websites are all deindex after moving to a new host...

    So your are saying that the networks are being indexed because all their sites are on consecutive C class IPs? Correct?

    This is a much different statement from your first post.


    While I do agree that this is an issue which is why my network sites cover multiple hosting companies from multiple dataceneters in multiple countries I do not believe that it is the only or even main thing Google is keying on.



    #39 abby013

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    Posted 29 February 2012 - 04:28

    View PostARVolund, on 29 February 2012 - 03:10, said:

    So your are saying that the networks are being indexed because all their sites are on consecutive C class IPs? Correct?

    This is a much different statement from your first post.


    While I do agree that this is an issue which is why my network sites cover multiple hosting companies from multiple dataceneters in multiple countries I do not believe that it is the only or even main thing Google is keying on.

    What do you mean on much different statement from my first post??

    My statement is that it is easy for an algo to detect sites hosted on class C ips that are pointing on the same money sites...

    On aln case, it would be difficult to track those blogs. Even some are hosted on class C ips, those blogs are not linking on the same money sites...

    About the bmr deindexation, their domains are hosted on class C ips.. So there is a possibility that same money sites will be posted on a same class... This happens when a guy publish several post on bmr...

    Cheers!!

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    #40 Nanny Rose

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    Posted 29 February 2012 - 04:37

    I think we all agree that hosting is 1 issue/footprint, but it certainly is one of many!





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