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  • a (newbie) link pyramid question


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    #1 brighthope

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    Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:32 AM

    Hi,
    I was away from SEO for a while and I am re-learning a lot now, especially in English (my main SEO filed was in Japanese).
    What's new to me is the idea of link pyramid. I have got the basic idea now but I have really basic questions.
    If you can answer them, it would be really appreciated.

    So I learned that you are to make 2-3 tiers, and then only the first tier sites link to your money/main site.
    For the 1st tier you use other sub-main sites in the same niche, for the 2nd tier you use web 2.0 etc.

    I get the basic idea.
    My question is, when you do it on your own (not paying for it), you have only limited sites you can manage.
    Most diagrams explaining the link pyramid on the web have only 3-4 sites linking to the money site.

    So, a basic, newbie, possibly very stupid question.
    (but please help me out here! thanks)

    Can the main site really go high in SERPs when it gets only links from 3-4 sites??
    Really? I have never seen any sites which sits #1 with a competitive keywords only have links from 3-4 domains/sites.

    I know if the site is good ideally you get "natural" links but you know it is difficult and when you do put links on your own the idea is you put links not to the main site but bottom sites of the pyramid. You are not supposed to link to your main site directly, right? (except those 3-4 1st tiers)

    Or do you in reality have to have many more 1st tiers? Or need more direct links to the main site from some parts of the pyramids or randomly? But again the idea is to make the bottoms of the pyramid stronger by linking them, and not the main site, right?

    Thanks in advance.
    BH

    #2 Fixer

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    Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:34 AM

    Hey brighthope,

    Yes tiered linking is very effective but you will generally not get good SERPS with just 3-4 teir 1 sites. So yes you need to make a lot of different teir 1 sites that link to your money site and then add teirs to them. For teir 1 sites you need to mix it up and get them from many sources, for example, web 2.0, your own sites (made to link to your money site only), article sites etc. then you send other links to these but diversity is the key.

    You do not need to teir all the links but keep it random, add in bookmarks, fb likes, G +1's all directly to the main site.

    #3 _Richard

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    Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:45 AM

    First off most sites will get multiple pyramids, second those tier 1 sites are not the only links you create to your money site. You should be building a large diverse group of link types to your money site.

    There are really two main reasons to build pyramids.

    1. Give the links goingt to your sites more power. What is going to have more power, a web 2.0 page with zero or just a few incoming links or one that is at the bottome of a pyramid of 100's or 1000's of layerd links? The one with thousands of links behind it is going to be a much stronger link.

    2. It allows you to use the power of lower quality, highly automated link building to rank your site without sending all those links directly to your money site. I can send thousands of links a day to my tier 3 sites without having any adverse reactions on my money site.

    Sometimes I have a link in my signature to a product. If I do assume it is an affiliate link and I might make a couple of bucks off it...................................


    #4 mofoe

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    Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:01 AM

    I have a job on odesk now for account creation from the list you made ARVolund. Big thanks for that. This will be done manually. The thing I am thinking about is the automated posting you mentioned previously. Is this something you made with ubot or something? Even more cheekily is this something you would be willing to share/sell to me to save me building it?

    #5 _Richard

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    Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:50 AM

    You should be able to create something fairly easily with ubot since you are taking registration out of the picture. I used python for mine but without registration the process is pretty simple, I bet you could even do it with imacros if you were so inclined.

    Not really something I would share at this point not really a finished product. I do have something in the works though but probably a couple of months down the road.

    Sometimes I have a link in my signature to a product. If I do assume it is an affiliate link and I might make a couple of bucks off it...................................


    #6 junkdna

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    Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:59 PM

    I was doing 3 tier pyramids with LWB for about 1-2 weeks. At first, the reaction was phenomenal. I've pushed short tail keywords and pyramids lifted me to the page one, for the whole family of related long tails. In total, just after 2 weeks I was on page one for about 20 words. In my LWB pyramids, Tier 1 would always be a Web2.0, with a human spin, 100% human readable, with few pictures thrown in. Tier 2 & 3 garbage spins on Web2.0. All of them T1, 2 & 3 were Web 2.0. It all stayed like that for another 2 weeks and I kept repeating diligently. I would methodically blast the T3 with SB auto approves and Linkalicious. Same for T2. I would leave T1 alone, no blasting, just links from T2 and T3. I was doing about one pyramid every 3 days, alternating short and long tail keywords at random.

    Unfortunately, in the 3rd week, it all tanked down. Both the short tail and long tail. They all sunk. Interestingly, my site is authority site, ranking for many different keywords. It only sunk for the keywords that were pumped with LWB. Other keyword families, where I used other strategies were left intact or even improved. Practically it means, that keywords are ranked individually and that site as a whole doesn't get punished if you use wrong approach on one keyword family.

    Can somebody advise on what should I change in the above method, to improve again?

    Edited by junkdna, 15 March 2012 - 04:00 PM.

    Guys With Brains Work For Guys With Balls,
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    #7 _Richard

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    Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:10 PM

    Not an expert on LWB by any means but I ran it for awhile then let it go and just started using it again.

    Personally I have no plans on using it directly on any money sites. The quality is just not there for that. I plan on doing some expirementing on a few tier ones and twos to see where the best use might be but definately not on money sites.

    Sometimes I have a link in my signature to a product. If I do assume it is an affiliate link and I might make a couple of bucks off it...................................


    #8 junkdna

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    Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:37 PM

    Yeah, LWB is not important here, same stuff can be done with other pyramid builders. Question is, if all tiers are only Web2.0s and if T3 and T2 are pushed with SB is that bad? What can I do to improve that.
    Guys With Brains Work For Guys With Balls,
    Guys With Balls Work For Luck.

    #9 _Richard

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    Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:57 PM

    I usually use 2.0's for tier one and two. I do mix it up with articles from some of the article sites though. Honestly I use the 2.0's on the smaller tiers because they coast me more in time and money. All the tools only use a small number of sites and I like a larger spread of about 100 or so and it costs me more. I generally use AMR for the tier three sites though again I do mix it up a bit. I then hammer the tier threes with whatever I have to hammer them with.

    What I am going to try with LWB is point it at my tier two sites basically giving me a deeper pyramid and pointing it at some tier ones and seeing how that goes. I am somewhere between an idea and a plan at this point.

    I use SB on all the sites but I use it differently depending on what the target is. For tier three sites it is anything goes, as I work in closer to the money sites I clean up the lists a bit better for each level so the quanitity goes down and the quality goes up.

    Sometimes I have a link in my signature to a product. If I do assume it is an affiliate link and I might make a couple of bucks off it...................................


    #10 jordanwalker

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    Posted 16 March 2012 - 03:13 AM

    I understand the basic concept of creating a multi-tier scheme but it seems to me that this would be extremely difficult to manage on a large scale. I first had the idea in 2008 but got wrapped up in my actual job so I haven't pursued it. Can someone explain this in a little more detail. I'm curious how you are creating and managing hundreds if not thousands of tier 3 sites. How are you keeping track of what tier 3 sites have linked to what tier 2 sites. How are you creating content for all of these sites? How are you getting tier 3 sites indexed on the big G?

    Sorry for the long-winded open ended question here. Complete n00b. Flame me if you must but I won't like you if you do. ;)

    #11 _Richard

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    Posted 16 March 2012 - 11:55 AM

    I understand the basic concept of creating a multi-tier scheme but it seems to me that this would be extremely difficult to manage on a large scale. I first had the idea in 2008 but got wrapped up in my actual job so I haven't pursued it. Can someone explain this in a little more detail. I'm curious how you are creating and managing hundreds if not thousands of tier 3 sites. How are you keeping track of what tier 3 sites have linked to what tier 2 sites. How are you creating content for all of these sites? How are you getting tier 3 sites indexed on the big G?

    Sorry for the long-winded open ended question here. Complete n00b. Flame me if you must but I won't like you if you do. ;)


    Once you have tiers 1-3 built for a site there is not really all that much to keep track of. Lets say I have 10 pyramids for a particular site, when it comes to backlinking the tier threes the keywords are going to be close enough that I can use one set for all 10 pyramids. At that level you are not really caring about exact keywords anyway you are going for general topics and a huge number of links. So the only thing I need to know about a pyramid is what site it is for.

    As far as indexing the tier three pages that is the easy part. I just backlink the hell out of it, each page will get at least 1k links to start (more for more competitive niches) and then go into a queue to get hit on a regular basis.

    It does take some oranization and honestly I screw it up once in awhile but it is not really that difficult.

    Sometimes I have a link in my signature to a product. If I do assume it is an affiliate link and I might make a couple of bucks off it...................................


    #12 adamcm

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    Posted 16 March 2012 - 01:29 PM

    I have an unrelated question in regards to what I think I can see another website using. I was always under the impression that Blogroll links were ineffective. But I saw a website that had a few blogrolls pointing to them, and then when I performed some link analysis on internal pages of the tier 1 blog roll links they also came up with other blogrolls. Are blogroll pyramids useful?

    #13 _Richard

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    Posted 16 March 2012 - 01:36 PM

    I suppose it depends on what you mean by useful. Do they pass PR? Yes. Do they seem to help very much when ranking for a particular keyword? They do not appear to be all that effective. I have never tested a blog roll pyramid but my "guess" is that it would not be hugely effective. The only way to know for sure is to test it and find out.

    Sometimes I have a link in my signature to a product. If I do assume it is an affiliate link and I might make a couple of bucks off it...................................


    #14 brighthope

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    Posted 16 March 2012 - 03:36 PM

    The discussion seems continuing but at this point as the original poster I want to say thank you for all the replies you put. I really appreciate your time and help.
    BH

    #15 garygee

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    Posted 16 March 2012 - 03:41 PM

    Is there any reason not to use bmr or a similar network as tier 1 and tier 2 of the pyramids?

    #16 jordanwalker

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    Posted 16 March 2012 - 03:43 PM

    Once you have tiers 1-3 built for a site there is not really all that much to keep track of. Lets say I have 10 pyramids for a particular site, when it comes to backlinking the tier threes the keywords are going to be close enough that I can use one set for all 10 pyramids.


    So what kind of ratio are we looking at? 100:1, 10:1? Tier 3:Tier 2 and Tier 2:Tier 1? Do these have to all be their own domains or can I just start a ton of blogs everywhere on free blogging platforms such as blogger? I'm trying to get an idea of how large my campaign is going to have to be and how much money I'm going to have to spend to overcome the obvious blackhat SEO dominating my market. Not mad at them but I need to compete and right now that is just not happening.

    EDIT: Oh, and is Tier 1 the money site, or is Tier 1 a high quality site linking to your money site?

    Edited by jordanwalker, 16 March 2012 - 03:44 PM.


    #17 _Richard

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    Posted 16 March 2012 - 03:53 PM

    It goes

    money site>tier 1>tier 2>tier 3> spam the hell out of it.

    I generally go 10-1 from tier to tier through tier 3 and then start at 1000-1 and up for the spamming targeting tier 3.

    I mostly use 2.0's, article sites, and blog networks for the tiers though I am doing some testing with other platforms.

    Sometimes I have a link in my signature to a product. If I do assume it is an affiliate link and I might make a couple of bucks off it...................................


    #18 adamcm

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    Posted 16 March 2012 - 03:53 PM

    Is there any reason not to use bmr or a similar network as tier 1 and tier 2 of the pyramids?


    I am currently trying this process out (building the Tier 2) so others may be able to answer better, but in my opinion if your post is on a high PR website, it wouldn't hurt to do the same things as the Web 2.0's.

    #19 jordanwalker

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    Posted 16 March 2012 - 04:04 PM

    It goes

    money site>tier 1>tier 2>tier 3> spam the hell out of it.

    I generally go 10-1 from tier to tier through tier 3 and then start at 1000-1 and up for the spamming targeting tier 3.

    I mostly use 2.0's, article sites, and blog networks for the tiers though I am doing some testing with other platforms.


    Holy cow. So for one money site using exact 10:1 ratio through the tiers I'm looking at 1111 sites total. And for spamming Tier 3 1000:1 I'm looking at 1,000,000 links initial then ongoing of what, say 50,000 month?

    Let's say we're referring to Tier 1 as ONE of the pyramids support my money site. Do you build 1 pyramid at a time or do you go for broke from day 1 and try to hit them all at once? How on earth are you managing to create 1000 tier 3 sites and keep them updated with content and then on top of all of that get 1000 links to each of them?

    I'm trying to compete for a local niche market only and I've been top 10 in the past without doing any of this. I do want the number 1 spot but I don't want to jeopardize my domain. I guess once I get this crap down I can pop back up and do it even better but I'm really needing some more income in a bad way so I'd rather get it right the first time especially with what looks to be a project that is going to take multiple months to really get moving.

    #20 _Richard

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    Posted 16 March 2012 - 04:22 PM

    I am currently trying this process out (building the Tier 2) so others may be able to answer better, but in my opinion if your post is on a high PR website, it wouldn't hurt to do the same things as the Web 2.0's.


    Honestly not understanding what you are asking. Are you asking if blog posts can be used as tier 2 sites? Then yes you can use them as both tier one and tier two sites.

    Sometimes I have a link in my signature to a product. If I do assume it is an affiliate link and I might make a couple of bucks off it...................................






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