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  • RELAX: Truth about SERP Penalties and Ranking Drops


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    #1 spaxton1

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    Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:22 AM

    There's been a lot of talk and bold statements floating around about ranking penalties. I've seen some silly responses from people that are panicking and in some cases giving up on SEO.

    First, let me say that no one is immune from getting a ranking slap. Its just part of the business. It happens and will continue to happen.

    Common Myths about Penalties:

    1) Not ALL ranking drops are penalties!

    Infected SIte?:
    There are a number of reasons why you might have rankings drop. Often times it may be something completely unrelated to link building. I recently reviewed a guys site that claimed he got some penalty from his linking methods-- however, his site had actually been hacked and was loaded with Malware, Phishing Pages, Etc. The site was black listed due to the malware. Not sure, check here: http://sitecheck.sucuri.net/scanner/ (Free tool)

    Loss of Authority Links?
    Recently people have been seeing drops in rankings from using popular networks such as BMR, or even ALN in some cases. (Or from Traditional HPBL Networks that got De-indexed) If you were relying on any method or network too much; its obvious why your rankings would drop if those networks links got devalued. (in part or whole) Could this trip a filter to suddenly have a major portion of authority links devalued? Of course! Does it mean its a penalty? Probably not in the sense you're thinking.

    Change in Algorithms
    This is probably the most common cause for dropped ranks in the SERPS. Google is always tweeking and releasing some new advanced algo to improve search results. For example, you used to be able to rank by using a handful of profile links-- but those days are long gone. You used to be able to use Black Hat techniques like KW stuffing, or Frames, or Java Redirects, or Clones, or Meta Stuffing Etc... those days are gone. Algo changes cause all sorts of ranking issues.

    2) There are different Types of Penalties:

    Manual Review by Google Spam Team:
    This would be the most extreme penalty you can get for your site. If Google has manually reviewed your site and taken adverse action; then the site may not be worth salvaging. In most cases, the signs are more obvious. For example, your site could be completely removed from their index. That would be an indication of a manual review. You can check to see if your site is found in Google by using the following search function: site:yoursite.com If your site isn't found; then you have received a severe penalty that is most likely due to a manual review by Google's spam team. You can request for re-inclusion; but it can be very costly and time consuming to get your site re-indexed. (They will require you to remove any unnatural links; which will make the site not rank anyway-- so why bother)

    Algorithmic Slap: (Tripped Filter)
    These types of penalties are usually caused when an algo detects something un-natural or unlikely. For example, if you get 10,000 links in 1 day. http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2011/03/what-happens-when-you-build-10000-dodgy-links-to-a-new-domain-in-24-hours.html Or, if you use one method as your primary linking method and it gets devalued. Or, if you use detectable doorway pages, or easily spotted footprints, etc. These types of slaps are commonly referred to as -50 of -100 penalties. Algorithmic Slaps are temporary and usually only last for 30, 60, or 90 days. The length and damage of the slap depends on how well you've built up authority for your site. A simple test to determine whether your site is going to quickly snap back or not is by doing a check on other KWs. Are you ranking for other terms in Google? Is the effected page still ranking in Google for other terms? A fast way to check rankings is to compare rankings against SEMrush. If you still are ranking for other terms for that page; then that's a good sign that the slap is minor and will bounce back.

    Ranking Dance:
    People seem to jump to conclusions when they see rankings jump around. But, that is not a penalty at all. That is natural for Google to move sites on an off the top positions. Not seeing your site in the top page for a couple of hours doesn't mean your site is penalized. If it comes on and off the page it just means google is crawling your links. To simple technique to check your true rankings without using software or clearing your cache is to open a new window in "Incognito Mode" this will show you the true SERPS Results and not something based on your cache.

    DON'T PANIC!
    The bottom line is that people need to relax and not panic. As explained in the video below by Matt Cutts; most of these penalites are short-term and will not last long. The worst thing to do would be to walk away from a site that was making money. If you stop link building, it will most likely only hurt your chances of coming out of a penalty. Be patient and wait and see what happens. At minimum give your site 90 days to see if it gets its rankings back. In most cases, your site will bounce back with time. Time and continued linking is the solution for most penalties. (But it does depend on the type of penalty, your site, etc)

    RELAX~ Take a deep breath and don't loose hope.

    Check out this Video about Penalties by Matt Cutts:

    ------ I hope that clears up some confusion------------
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    #2 dominicfang

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    Posted 11 March 2012 - 02:10 AM

    Good information.

    #3 attorneydavid

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    Posted 11 March 2012 - 02:24 AM

    To a newbie or someone dependent on one site. It's going to be frightening no matter how much credible people tell you it'll be okay. I have 3 sites caught up in the recent mess and I've been ranking stuff for 5 years and tripped all sorts of filters. but there's also a voice in the back of your head afraid this time it'll be different and it won't come back.

    Need a domain name? I have the hookup checkout Nameperfection!


    #4 Scipio

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    Posted 11 March 2012 - 02:58 AM

    Do you think that algorithmic slaps don´t have any impact on the future of the rankings (after the 30/60/90) days?

    I think using bad spun content (in terms of uniqueness) gives algorithmic slaps as well.

    #5 pixelgrinder

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    Posted 11 March 2012 - 03:28 AM

    You have a lot of good information here and for the most part I think you're right.

    Where I think you aren't giving proper consideration is people having the inability to move in the SERPs after being hit. I lost a fair amount of rankings for one of my sites but most remained on the first page. After I dug around I came to realize I had backlinks that were deindexed. I immediately began pushing some serious link building to regain my positions. Im talking expensive, real blog niche related blog posts, contextual, sponsorships etc etc (high $xxxx worth of links). Ive been battling the same keywords for multiple websites for over 5 years now and I know exactly what is required to rank for these keywords.

    Not one of my rankings increased as a result of these links. I went to the various IM forums I am a member of and many people are reporting the exact same thing occurring. This has lead me to believe there is a penalty that prevents a site from moving in the SERPs. Although I think this is temporary, I think it is worth noting as people are giving up on their sites after being hit.

    #6 Glassy

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    Posted 11 March 2012 - 09:04 AM

    You have a lot of good information here and for the most part I think you're right.

    Where I think you aren't giving proper consideration is people having the inability to move in the SERPs after being hit. I lost a fair amount of rankings for one of my sites but most remained on the first page. After I dug around I came to realize I had backlinks that were deindexed. I immediately began pushing some serious link building to regain my positions. Im talking expensive, real blog niche related blog posts, contextual, sponsorships etc etc (high $xxxx worth of links). Ive been battling the same keywords for multiple websites for over 5 years now and I know exactly what is required to rank for these keywords.

    Not one of my rankings increased as a result of these links. I went to the various IM forums I am a member of and many people are reporting the exact same thing occurring. This has lead me to believe there is a penalty that prevents a site from moving in the SERPs. Although I think this is temporary, I think it is worth noting as people are giving up on their sites after being hit.


    My site has pages which were effected at the start of Feb and I also haven't been able to get the pages to budge with any kind of links. I've tried my own high PR network of 30 sites, blog comments, social bookmarking and social media and adding fresh content and it wont move up or down, it's just frozen. I think it's a penalty, as there are other sites moving up and down around my site everyday, but mine stays frozen where it is.

    Oh and the content on my site is all unique and written by me, there is no dupe content. There are also no plugins, it's not a WP site.

    I checked the site with that link above for malware and it's clean.

    Edited by Glassy, 11 March 2012 - 09:06 AM.


    #7 ^RankMe

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    Posted 11 March 2012 - 10:52 AM

    @OP: Not sure why you think a manual penalty results in complete de-indexation and say that algorithmic penalties are otherwise known -50's or -100's. In many cases, a manual review can result in a -50 or -100 as opposed to complete de-indexing.

    In any case, I feel so honored that you decided to drop by and set the record straight. Can't wait to see what you're selling to help all of us misguided souls get our rankings back.

    #8 neutrinoburger

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    Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:28 AM

    Sounds good in theory but this is all mere speculation unless/until someone can show how they've recovered from the current bashing by Poogle.



    #9 Fixer

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    Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:15 PM

    Yes a lot of speculation here but I do agree that most penalities will be algo penalties so should be recoverable within a shorter period of time. The question is that, taking into account the above video was done over a year ago, how much of this is still true? Have G started to apply timeframes on algo penalties i.e. 30 days on all?

    I do think that most of what people have seen with the recent hit on networks is all algo stuff so a lot of the deindexation will hit sites mainly because they have lost a lot of good value links. Is there a penalty, quite possibly if a site receives X number of links or % of links that are deindexed as part of an algo update targeting networks then yes, maybe an auto penalty was given? Either way people should ba able to recover from this but the fact of the matter is that people have been blindly joining networks willy nilly and just seeing the rankings increase and couting their money, without protecting themselves!! This is the important part, you should only get links which you can at least monitor and remove or have some sort of control over. With these networks that got deindexed, look at them and you will see poorly built sites and should have screamed out not only to you but obviously to G.

    Well as they say time is a healer so I would expect that most that continue work on their sites then they will recover from this. It should also be a good lesson that you should not rely 100% on G traffic and should be looking at social networking traffic, banner ads on sites with big traffic etc (obviously this will be for the bigger earners mainly).

    #10 MarkAse

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    Posted 11 March 2012 - 06:41 PM

    It's a well reasoned post, but frankly speaking I can't really consider the content without considering the source.

    If you sold HPBL's in the past, then posting your opinion that those same links are not causing a penalty is simply not valid. Sorry.

    If it is simple link loss, why can't some people improve their rankings with more links? What are you going to say after 30 days is up and they still can't? Oh, it must be a 60 day penalty. After 90 days? 120?

    #11 ^RankMe

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    Posted 11 March 2012 - 08:37 PM

    It's a well reasoned post, but frankly speaking I can't really consider the content without considering the source.

    If you sold HPBL's in the past, then posting your opinion that those same links are not causing a penalty is simply not valid. Sorry.

    If it is simple link loss, why can't some people improve their rankings with more links? What are you going to say after 30 days is up and they still can't? Oh, it must be a 60 day penalty. After 90 days? 120?


    Well put. I also take issue with anyone that proclaims "truth" in SEO especially right after a shake-up.

    #12 pixelgrinder

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    Posted 11 March 2012 - 09:09 PM

    Well put. I also take issue with anyone that proclaims "truth" in SEO especially right after a shake-up.


    And not only a minor shake-up at that; a complete restructuring of the industry. There has never been this significant level of aggression towards these types of links or these ranking phenomenons in the past.

    Also, I love your cynicism (no sarcasm). :D

    #13 finemoves

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    Posted 11 March 2012 - 10:35 PM

    In august when clients got deindex on that big hit u could add more links and get ranks back

    I don't see anyone reccovering from this

    If you check out seo and link building kws where everyone was using hpbl, u see like 75 percent od sites in top 40 gone.

    There is so much serp change in competitve niches, it makes the original panda look tame

    Sorry to be a downer

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    #14 spaxton1

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    Posted 12 March 2012 - 03:25 AM

    I appreciate everyone's feedback on my post. The whole point is to boost some optimism. Too many people are jumping to conclusions that simply aren't valid. (Some are, many aren't)

    [quote name='Scipio' timestamp='1331434717' post='23900']
    Do you think that algorithmic slaps don´t have any impact on the future of the rankings (after the 30/60/90) days?

    I think using bad spun content (in terms of uniqueness) gives algorithmic slaps as well.
    [/quote]

    It all depends on the dynamics of your site. For me it all comes down to true authority of a site. Building up authority for a site is much more than just ranking for some major KWs. IMO site authority goes much deeper than mere pagerank or content, etc. You could ask 10 SEOs their opinion about what authority is and you will probably get 10 different answers. No one can really say what Google considers for real authority of a site; but I know it goes well beyond links, good onsite content, and optimization. For me, I build authority by avoiding thin "Dead Sites." I like to make my sites "alive" by doing trust building such as adding site credentials, value, good content, and lots of fresh content that naturally attracts links, etc. If I had to pick one factor for determining trust I would look at the total number of KWs ranking in Google's top 20 and divide it by the number of unique pages ranking. For most trust, you'll want a good ratio of KWs vs pages. If you've built up true trust for your site; then my opinion is that algo slaps will be short term. If you have a thin site and not very many KWs ranking; then the slap will take longer to recover if it does at all.

    Bottom-line: In many cases if you have a good solid link foundation and have built up authority/trust for your site; then any slap will most likely go away. If your rankings are still stuck after 90 days; then its a good sign the site won't re-coupe.

    Spun Content: There are probably endless number of things that could cause a slap. I wouldn't use spun content on money sites, ever. (Unless its a true high quality spin)


    [quote name='attorneydavid' timestamp='1331432687' post='23899']
    To a newbie or someone dependent on one site. It's going to be frightening no matter how much credible people tell you it'll be okay. I have 3 sites caught up in the recent mess and I've been ranking stuff for 5 years and tripped all sorts of filters. but there's also a voice in the back of your head afraid this time it'll be different and it won't come back.
    [/quote]

    Thin sites with low trust may not ever come back. I think Google is getting better at weeding out what they consider lower trust sites. If your sites have real trust; they should bounce back. It would be unwise for Google to permanently penalize trust sites. (It would be the end of their search engine) It would open a whole industry of underground anti-seo.

    [quote name='pixelgrinder' timestamp='1331436491' post='23904']
    You have a lot of good information here and for the most part I think you're right.

    Where I think you aren't giving proper consideration is people having the inability to move in the SERPs after being hit. I lost a fair amount of rankings for one of my sites but most remained on the first page. After I dug around I came to realize I had backlinks that were deindexed. I immediately began pushing some serious link building to regain my positions. Im talking expensive, real blog niche related blog posts, contextual, sponsorships etc etc (high $xxxx worth of links). Ive been battling the same keywords for multiple websites for over 5 years now and I know exactly what is required to rank for these keywords.

    Not one of my rankings increased as a result of these links. I went to the various IM forums I am a member of and many people are reporting the exact same thing occurring. This has lead me to believe there is a penalty that prevents a site from moving in the SERPs. Although I think this is temporary, I think it is worth noting as people are giving up on their sites after being hit.
    [/quote]

    If a filter or penalty is imposed on your site; it will take time. If you've been building high quality links and not seeing any movement; it would indicate you have a filter or penalty. No matter what you do, that KW won't bounce back until the filter is lifted. Potentially there might be some techniques to "Shock" your rankings again. But, I haven't tested it and can't comment on whether it would help or hurt. Don't be surprised if nothing happens for the next 90 days. Listen to your gut feeling... if you think the site is dead; then move on. If you think the site can survive a penalty; then I'd continue to build links for at least 3 months to see if the rankings snap back or not. Before spending much more money on the site I would look at other factors. Such as: whether or not your site ranks in the top 20 for any major term anymore. If all your rankings are completely gone for the site; then it would appear to be a heavier penalty that might not ever be lifted. (Comes back to the "Trust Factor" I keep mentioning.)

    [quote name='Glassy' timestamp='1331456644' post='23926']
    My site has pages which were effected at the start of Feb and I also haven't been able to get the pages to budge with any kind of links. I've tried my own high PR network of 30 sites, blog comments, social bookmarking and social media and adding fresh content and it wont move up or down, it's just frozen. I think it's a penalty, as there are other sites moving up and down around my site everyday, but mine stays frozen where it is.

    Oh and the content on my site is all unique and written by me, there is no dupe content. There are also no plugins, it's not a WP site.

    I checked the site with that link above for malware and it's clean.
    [/quote]

    If the sites frozen-- then you're probably right; there's most likely a penalty of sorts. Linking your way out of a penalty is unlikely. IMO, it will take time. If you have confidence in the trust of your site; I would continue your link building. I suspect that the worst thing to do when a filter or penalty is tripped is to stop link building. No one knows what Google is looking at when a slap is placed on a site; but it's not out of the question to think that if your link building suddenly stops that the filter might become more permanent. It comes back to the "Trust" question. If Google bot detects continued link building especially after a penalty it might help boost your trust and get the penalty to fall off. If you stop building links; it would be the same footprint spammers have used for years and might by a factor that solidifies the penalty.


    [quote name='^RankMe' timestamp='1331463133' post='23935']
    @OP: Not sure why you think a manual penalty results in complete de-indexation and say that algorithmic penalties are otherwise known -50's or -100's. In many cases, a manual review can result in a -50 or -100 as opposed to complete de-indexing.

    In any case, I feel so honored that you decided to drop by and set the record straight. Can't wait to see what you're selling to help all of us misguided souls get our rankings back.
    [/quote]

    IMO, if a money site is completely de-indexed; then it would be more indicative of a manual review than just an Algorithmic penalty. But, with that said I'm sure manual reviews have different levels of adverse action. Not all manual reviews will result in your site getting de-indexed.


    [quote name='^RankMe' timestamp='1331463133' post='23935']
    @OP: In any case, I feel so honored that you decided to drop by and set the record straight. Can't wait to see what you're selling to help all of us misguided souls get our rankings back.
    [/quote]

    Ouch! I wasn't trying to come off as high and mighty. Sorry if you felt that way. I was just adding my 2 cents about my understanding of penalties based on my experience. Man, I wish I had some product to remove penalties. If I were to sell anything to get a penalty removed it would be time.

    [quote name='neutrinoburger' timestamp='1331465296' post='23942']
    Sounds good in theory but this is all mere speculation unless/until someone can show how they've recovered from the current bashing by Poogle.
    [/quote]

    The latest Google update is too new to say what will happen long-term. However, I still feel "Trust" plays a much bigger role now days. Its a question of time.

    [quote name='Fixer' timestamp='1331468135' post='23946']
    Yes a lot of speculation here but I do agree that most penalities will be algo penalties so should be recoverable within a shorter period of time. The question is that, taking into account the above video was done over a year ago, how much of this is still true? Have G started to apply timeframes on algo penalties i.e. 30 days on all?

    I do think that most of what people have seen with the recent hit on networks is all algo stuff so a lot of the deindexation will hit sites mainly because they have lost a lot of good value links. Is there a penalty, quite possibly if a site receives X number of links or % of links that are deindexed as part of an algo update targeting networks then yes, maybe an auto penalty was given? Either way people should ba able to recover from this but the fact of the matter is that people have been blindly joining networks willy nilly and just seeing the rankings increase and couting their money, without protecting themselves!! This is the important part, you should only get links which you can at least monitor and remove or have some sort of control over. With these networks that got deindexed, look at them and you will see poorly built sites and should have screamed out not only to you but obviously to G.

    Well as they say time is a healer so I would expect that most that continue work on their sites then they will recover from this. It should also be a good lesson that you should not rely 100% on G traffic and should be looking at social networking traffic, banner ads on sites with big traffic etc (obviously this will be for the bigger earners mainly).
    [/quote]

    I don't think anyone can say exactly how penalties effect sites. But, there are principles that we always remain. Personally, I think Google uses a time factor to weed out spammers. I would go as far as to say that Google probably plays close attention how a site re-acts to a penalty. Time is really the only thing Google can really use to weed out good sites from bad sites. Its likely that a trusted site will continue as business as usual. A spammer or non-trusted site will probably abandon the site; thus potentially giving the penalty long-term sticking power. As mentioned above, stopping link building is probably the worse thing that a site owner can do after a penalty. That behavior is easily detected by algos and might determine whether a site recovers from a penalty or not. (Not referring to de-indexed sites-- that's another story. I'm referring to Algo Slaps)

    I agree 100% that relying on G for all of your traffic is very risky. Its good to have a safety net that can weather the storm should you lose your rankings. Plus, it helps with building trust to your site. I would even take it further and say to diversify your products more too. I see a lot of people targeting 1 service or product for their sites. (Not really a good indication of "Trust/ Authority" for a site.)

    [quote name='MarkAse' timestamp='1331491295' post='23987'] It's a well reasoned post, but frankly speaking I can't really consider the content without considering the source. If you sold HPBL's in the past, then posting your opinion that those same links are not causing a penalty is simply not valid. Sorry. If it is simple link loss, why can't some people improve their rankings with more links? What are you going to say after 30 days is up and they still can't? Oh, it must be a 60 day penalty. After 90 days? 120? [/quote]

    Actually, I referred to HPBL in the posts too. I believe Traditional HPBL networks are causing filters to be tripped. If anything, I have a lot of credibility in this department. Not only have I sold HPBL in the past; I co-own and run one of the largest high PR networks. Back in August when Google first updated their algo with the Detect and De-index filter for Traditional HPBLs we lost $70,000 in de-indexed sites. That loss is what pushed us to recreate our networks. We still run High PR networks; but they're nothing like the traditional spammy HPBL networks that are continually getting de-indexed by Google. Techniques evolve. SEO is always staying one step ahead of Algo changes. This post isn't about my network or attempt to sell something. We don't offer our networks publicly anymore-- they're now offered by invitation only to our waiting lists.

    As for the link building-- as mentioned above; if you tripped a filter you're probably not going to be able to link your way out of it. It will take time. If after 90 days you still are frozen in the SERPS; then I would think the penalty is more severe and probably won't be lifted. For me it comes back to the question of "Trust/ Authority" the more authority and trust your site has the more likely you will snap back. If all of your KWs/ pages are no longer ranking in the top 20; that would indicate to me that the site has trust issues and will be greater affected by Algo Slaps. Give it time, then see what happens.

    [quote name='^RankMe' timestamp='1331498270' post='23997'] Well put. I also take issue with anyone that proclaims "truth" in SEO especially right after a shake-up. [/quote]

    There will always be basic principles that influence SEO. The "Truth" is that everyone seems to be jumping to conclusions and making assumptions that simply aren't true. This post is more about providing people with a better understanding about how penalties typically work. No one knows for sure. Its my opinion and you can take it as you want. Heck, I think people would be nuts to take one persons opinion without testing things for themselves.

    [quote name='finemoves' timestamp='1331505332' post='24007'] In august when clients got deindex on that big hit u could add more links and get ranks back I don't see anyone reccovering from this If you check out seo and link building kws where everyone was using hpbl, u see like 75 percent od sites in top 40 gone. There is so much serp change in competitve niches, it makes the original panda look tame Sorry to be a downer [/quote]

    Hey Adam! I agree, I think there's a lot of sites that won't recover from penalties. But, really this just confirms my point about how important it is to build "Trust" for a site. I can't comment on your clients sites. But, when I look at your 2 main money sites I do see a couple of factors that I think play a role in "Trust" rank. For example, the .net site was a PR6, but only had a few dozen indexed pages. I also only could find less than 20 KWs ranking for your site; of which all were ranking for the homepage only. While, its true your sites have an excellent/ strong link profile, the missing "Trust" factors might be to blame for a non- recoverable penalty. I also can't find any KWs ranking in the top 20 for either of your sites; which seems indicative of a bigger penalty due to Google's Trust Algo... that or because all of the KWs seem to be targeting one page only.

    I think SEO will continually move towards building trust for sites. What worked in the past to rank a site quickly might still work today; but it will probably be short-term. This poses a bigger problem for those of us taking on offline clients. It becomes much more costly and difficult to build out trust for a clients site. The days of thin sites ranking well is narrowing.

    ---------------------------------

    I appreciate everyone's insight. :)

    Edited by spaxton1, 12 March 2012 - 03:34 AM.

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    #15 ^RankMe

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    Posted 12 March 2012 - 01:23 PM

    There will always be basic principles that influence SEO. The "Truth" is that everyone seems to be jumping to conclusions and making assumptions that simply aren't true. This post is more about providing people with a better understanding about how penalties typically work. No one knows for sure. Its my opinion and you can take it as you want. Heck, I think people would be nuts to take one persons opinion without testing things for themselves.


    Fair enough, but the title of your post isn't "spaxton1's opinion about SERP rankings and Penalties" it's "Truth about SERP Penalites and Ranking Drops" and comes off as some sort of omniscient guru post that looks like it was copy-and-pasted from WF. So, you can see how one might take issue, I'm sure.

    I'm not trying to attack you or anything spaxton, it's just that it's these types of posts that I don't like to see here on TP. Rather than initiating a discussion based on facts you're making assertions and proclaiming truths that may or may not be accurate. IMO, you come off as just another "guru" that will eventually make a living taking advantage of would-be SEOr's.

    Edited by ^RankMe, 12 March 2012 - 01:34 PM.


    #16 peterk

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    Posted 12 March 2012 - 01:34 PM

    Informative and insightful post but large part just 'opinion'. I have to agree with others, the inclusion of the word 'TRUTH' is just not acceptable in the title.

    #17 _Richard

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    Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:11 PM

    Fair enough, but the title of your post isn't "spaxton1's opinion about SERP rankings and Penalties" it's "Truth about SERP Penalites and Ranking Drops" and comes off as some sort of omniscient guru post that looks like it was copy-and-pasted from WF. So, you can see how one might take issue, I'm sure.

    I'm not trying to attack you or anything spaxton, it's just that it's these types of posts that I don't like to see here on TP. Rather than initiating a discussion based on facts you're making assertions and proclaiming truths that may or may not be accurate. IMO, you come off as just another "guru" that will eventually make a living taking advantage of would-be SEOr's.


    I have to agree with this. Things go over much better when phrased " I think "THIS" Because of "THIS"

    That is why I try to put a reason for my opinions in my posts as well as being clear about what I have actually tested and what is just an opinion. I am sure I slip up sometimes as my brain goes faster than my typing but as a general rule making those distinctions are my goal.

    When something is stated as a TRUTH without any testing to back it up then a lot of people will rightfully call that person out about it and want to see some testing or information to back it up.

    Sometimes I have a link in my signature to a product. If I do assume it is an affiliate link and I might make a couple of bucks off it...................................


    #18 adam

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    Posted 12 March 2012 - 03:33 PM

    When something is stated as a TRUTH without any testing to back it up then a lot of people will rightfully call that person out about it and want to see some testing or information to back it up.


    Indeed, and people need to remember when testing to remove as many variables as possible to reach the best conclusion possible... But even then, its correlation and not fact due to the 100's of variables, albeit some tests you could do 100 times and have 100 of the same outcomes....

    However people have to realise a lot of insight can be gained from peoples opinions and comments and most people will speak truthfully on boards to the best of their knowledge. In fact, I've had many 'light bulb' moments from reading fellow members posts on other boards...... But I have then always looked to test for myself to verify ...... when I feel the test is worthwhile.

    Not enough can be said of testing yourself.

    R.E. Title of the thread, misleading.... Yep.

    Edited by adam, 12 March 2012 - 03:34 PM.


    #19 spaxton1

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    Posted 13 March 2012 - 03:47 AM

    Hmmm.... I'm seeing a lot of completely non-relevant comments about silly things like the title of the thread, etc. Let's try sticking to the subject matter. I've given my knowledge about penalties and filters and how they effect sites differently based on the sites dynamics. If you think something isn't true; then by all means share your own understanding and explain why. But to ramble on about the title of the post and which words I used is not going to help anyone.

    I have no problem with people disagreeing with my views. Debate is always good and healthy for forums-- But, if you can't back up what you're saying then don't share. I can back up my views.
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    #20 MarkAse

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    Posted 13 March 2012 - 05:01 AM

    Spaxton, how do you judge authority?





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