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  • Direct Linking vs Tier Linking Thoughts


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    #1 ExtremistOak

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 04:31 PM

    All I am seeing across most of the forums lately is people complaining that they have either been hit by Google penalties or Google have sent them notices for unnatural links.

    As you are probably well aware we run AR and LA so we run tests all the time on what works best

    Now most of the people that are either complaining or moaning are doing things totally incorrect

    Do not get me wrong spinning still works great, but it can very easily be overcooked and look unnatural which is easily detectable

    Tons of people are still directly just linking everything back to their money sites, creating a couple of spun articles and then submitting them to every network possible AR, ALN, AMA, FBL, SEOLV etc etc

    Even worse if they have 3 money sites that are promoting ALL 3 sites in one piece of content - Doing this again and again causing citation issues and leave footprints

    I still do not understand why people are not being a little more clever with their link building

    Look we know Google even today with their latest updates are targeting link building like this and they will continue to keep hitting and hitting it

    What we have been doing more and more lately and which works similar if not better then always directly linking is just doing a lot more tiered linking

    But instead of having loads of unnatural links pointing back to our site we instead have maybe 5-10 links pointing back to our site which pass the same amount of power. The steps we have followed are as follows

    1) Create one good piece of content on a high authority site which links back to your money site - You can do this with Guest Blogging, myblogguest.com is not bad or just approaching people manually (Alot more work involved with that) - You can use BMR or LA or you can buy yourself a high PR site which contains only a few posts and make it look proper genuine.
    2) Once you have created that piece of content, you then need to start passing PR to it so it effectively flows from the post to your money site. Now this can be done with spinning networks coming into play ALN, AR, FBL, SEOLV, etc etc etc there are literally tons. Also chuck some of the low end links in there as well. profiles, blog comments etc
    3) Once you have done this you then start again and keep on expanding it

    Just think about how much cleaner your link profile will look after 6-12 months - With only clean, high authority sites linking back to you

    By all means I think using spun networks to directly link back to your money site is still good but maybe not at the effectiveness it was a couple of years ago, as Google spot unnatural patterns a little better now - I would recommend still link directly to your money site with spinning networks but not 100% maybe 30-50%

    The aim of the game is to get all the juice from the spinning networks but indirectly to create a so called blog network wheel

    I know a lot of people are probably already doing this or something similar but this is for the 80% of webmasters that are still not

    As an example a local dentist should not seriously have 20,000 direct links but instead a few hundred power links which work the same


    Posted Image
    The above (although a bit of a crap graph) shows how the flow works - Keep in mind this is just one level deep

    You could make tier after tier for example linking spun articles to a authority site which then links to another authority site which in turn links back to your own site

    Edited by Musa_Aykac, 28 February 2012 - 04:35 PM.


    #2 ballin

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 05:04 PM

    Great advice, have you seen the same kinds of results with this as you would direct linking?

    #3 ExtremistOak

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 05:23 PM

    Great advice, have you seen the same kinds of results with this as you would direct linking?


    Well I don't do them directly head to head so can't compare like that but we have seen ranking improvements across the board for clients with this method so it works and you do not have the headache of always thinking your backlink profile looks too unnatural

    #4 jeancarlin

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 06:41 PM

    Well I don't do them directly head to head so can't compare like that but we have seen ranking improvements across the board for clients with this method so it works and you do not have the headache of always thinking your backlink profile looks too unnatural

    The other added benefit is that reverse engineering your backlinks is harder for competitors.

    Question about anchors. Do you optimize the anchors when you link from T2 to T1 or no? In other words are you using more generic head terms linking from T2 to T1 or does that not make any difference?

    JC.

    #5 ExtremistOak

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 06:49 PM

    The other added benefit is that reverse engineering your backlinks is harder for competitors.

    Question about anchors. Do you optimize the anchors when you link from T2 to T1 or no? In other words are you using more generic head terms linking from T2 to T1 or does that not make any difference?

    JC.


    I use post name as it should have the target words inside it anyway, click here default things etc etc and chuck a few anchor texts in as well for diversity

    #6 Charybdis

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 07:14 PM

    If you say spun articles are not so powerful, then how come these same spun articles can power up the tier 1 sites? If they work for the tier 1 sites, they must work for the money site, too.

    #7 Ted

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 07:22 PM

    Question about anchors. Do you optimize the anchors when you link from T2 to T1 or no? In other words are you using more generic head terms linking from T2 to T1 or does that not make any difference?

    JC.


    If you study the white papers behind Topic Sensitive PageRank then you might get the impression that anchors matter when going from Tier 3 to Tier 2 to Tier 1. Technically, maybe they do matter.

    I care a lot about anchors from Tier 1 to the money site. However, in my personal experience, I am getting great results pretty much disregarding anchors from Tier 3 to Tier 2 to Tier 1. The only thing I care about from lower tiers are domain diversity and PageRank. That means getting links with PageRank pointing to them from more than one source.

    When I say that I disregard anchors, I mean that I will anchor any word or phrase that is even the slightest bit relevant and often times even irrelevant like a person's name. I find that irrelevant or generic anchors will actually stick better because you can make them appear more natural. Spam is much easier to spot when you see a link with a very specific keyword.

    Gimme fuel gimme fire gimme that which I desire..............


    #8 _Richard

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 07:56 PM

    Are any of you honestly arguing against creating higher quality links for your money sites? Really?

    Everyone talks about how quality links are better all you are doing here is creating your own.

    Ask yourself this question. How many sites would naturally get most of its links from pages with zero or very few incoming links? Not very many.

    So when you run 100's of AMR articles or web 2.0 pages towards your money site and do not back them up with anything what are you doing? It only makes sense that to back up the pages that are linking to your money site would be a good thing.

    Web 2.0 page with no or very few incoming links

    vs

    Web 2.0 page backed up with layers of pages and links numbering in the 100's or 1000's or more.

    Is there really any question about which one would be a better link? Seriously?

    When you build pyramids it is not anything tricky or confusing. All you are doing is creating your own quality pages to link from, nothing more nothing less.

    Seriously guys it is not rocket science

    Sometimes I have a link in my signature to a product. If I do assume it is an affiliate link and I might make a couple of bucks off it...................................


    #9 adamcm

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:07 PM

    Are any of you honestly arguing against creating higher quality links for your money sites? Really?

    Everyone talks about how quality links are better all you are doing here is creating your own.

    Ask yourself this question. How many sites would naturally get most of its links from pages with zero or very few incoming links? Not very many.

    So when you run 100's of AMR articles or web 2.0 pages towards your money site and do not back them up with anything what are you doing? It only makes sense that to back up the pages that are linking to your money site would be a good thing.

    Web 2.0 page with no or very few incoming links

    vs

    Web 2.0 page backed up with layers of pages and links numbering in the 100's or 1000's or more.

    Is there really any question about which one would be a better link? Seriously?

    When you build pyramids it is not anything tricky or confusing. All you are doing is creating your own quality pages to link from, nothing more nothing less.

    Seriously guys it is not rocket science



    As you probably know due to the numerous questions I asked a month ago, I am now taking this approach to my sites as well (tiered).

    I haven't got my Tier 2 set up yet (soon), but have been wondering if I built a great Web 2.0 property with good content and then build links to it, will the Web 2.0 rank better than my site that only has the 1 link coming from the Web 2.0? I would assume yes so my next conclusion is that it might be a good idea to have pre-existing links already pointed to me before building my tiers?

    Curious on your thoughts/experiences.

    #10 ExtremistOak

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:34 PM

    If you say spun articles are not so powerful, then how come these same spun articles can power up the tier 1 sites? If they work for the tier 1 sites, they must work for the money site, too.


    I am not saying its not powerful I am saying doing it with tiers only allows high quality linking back to your site - on top of this you will be getting the same sort of link juice but without the unnatural link profile

    #11 mofoe

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:31 PM

    This is actually a great idea, I have been linking out to my money sites now mainly from BMR etc and today we were speaking about myblogguest. I would feel uneasy about linking a post that I had no control over though. You could put a lot of work into linking a peice of real estate that you do not own or control. My preference would be on my own network.

    One thing I find though that some high pr links are enough to get things close to page one but you really need the anchor to finish off. I am not sure linking your links would work 100%, there always needs to be some anchor to get it up to the top spot.

    #12 Eric Conklin

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:44 PM

    I like your chart, but do you really think you need to cloak SEOLV and UAW links? Those are fairly white hat.

    In other words, they come from relevant sites and whether or not they are legitimate, they more or less look legitimate.

    #13 mofoe

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:58 PM

    I like your chart, but do you really think you need to cloak SEOLV and UAW links? Those are fairly white hat.

    In other words, they come from relevant sites and whether or not they are legitimate, they more or less look legitimate.


    who said anything about cloaking?

    #14 Eric Conklin

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:00 PM

    who said anything about cloaking?


    Excuse me, I meant put them on a top tier. That's sort of like cloaking because they never point directly to your site.

    Is this an issue with this sort of linking?

    #15 _Richard

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:01 PM

    As you probably know due to the numerous questions I asked a month ago, I am now taking this approach to my sites as well (tiered).

    I haven't got my Tier 2 set up yet (soon), but have been wondering if I built a great Web 2.0 property with good content and then build links to it, will the Web 2.0 rank better than my site that only has the 1 link coming from the Web 2.0? I would assume yes so my next conclusion is that it might be a good idea to have pre-existing links already pointed to me before building my tiers?

    Curious on your thoughts/experiences.


    I have had it happen a few times but it is never permanent and think about it what is wrong with having a top 10 ranking page link to your site? Link power seems to take awhile to flow through to the endpoint so you hit your tier threes and then it goes to your tier twos to your tier ones to your money site. It does not flow like water though, more like cold molasses flowing down stairs where it spends some time at each level before it reaches the edge and goes on to the next one.

    Sometimes I have a link in my signature to a product. If I do assume it is an affiliate link and I might make a couple of bucks off it...................................


    #16 mofoe

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:03 PM

    Excuse me, I meant put them on a top tier. That's sort of like cloaking because they never point directly to your site.

    Is this an issue with this sort of linking?


    I guess better go and read the first post again. This is exactly about using ALN, BMR etc as your tier 1. Musa says should probably use them as tier 2.

    #17 Eric Conklin

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:13 PM

    I guess better go and read the first post again. This is exactly about using ALN, BMR etc as your tier 1. Musa says should probably use them as tier 2.


    Right. I still didn't feel it was adequately explained.

    Is it because of content spinning?

    #18 Geegeez

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    Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:35 PM

    This is actually a great idea, I have been linking out to my money sites now mainly from BMR etc and today we were speaking about myblogguest. I would feel uneasy about linking a post that I had no control over though. You could put a lot of work into linking a peice of real estate that you do not own or control. My preference would be on my own network.


    If BMR was your Tier 1, what about an equivalent set of Web 2.0's on Tier 2 pointing to the BMR links? That way, even if you lost a BMR post, you could still manually change the link on your Web 2.0. Or, just put them in parallel, so that when you lose one or the other it doesn't hurt as much.

    Either way I agree, I would love to have my own network and be in control of all tiers.

    #19 _Richard

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    Posted 29 February 2012 - 12:09 AM

    If BMR was your Tier 1, what about an equivalent set of Web 2.0's on Tier 2 pointing to the BMR links? That way, even if you lost a BMR post, you could still manually change the link on your Web 2.0. Or, just put them in parallel, so that when you lose one or the other it doesn't hurt as much.

    Either way I agree, I would love to have my own network and be in control of all tiers.



    Well you could control all your own tiers but that would get pretty expensive in a hurry.

    Really though it is not rocket science and there are a lot more ways to do it right than to do it wrong. If you ask everyone who sets up pyramids exactly how they do it you would probably get a different answer from each one of us.

    How many sites to use?
    How many tiers?
    How large should the tiers be?
    etc etc etc........

    With a few general rules most anyway will work just fine.

    Generally put the higher quality pages closer to your money site.

    Try and make it so if you lose a site or a few sites your whole pyramid does not get wasted.

    Mix things up a bit, do not always use the exact same type of sites this is especially true for your tiers ones, somewhat true for tier two sites and not nearly as important for tier 3+ sites.


    Sometimes I have a link in my signature to a product. If I do assume it is an affiliate link and I might make a couple of bucks off it...................................


    #20 seon00b

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    Posted 29 February 2012 - 02:41 AM

    interesting discussion. I've been using lots of pyramids, with the tops of the pyramids (web 2.0's) pointing to the money site. haven't tried pointing some of the pyramids at the web 2. tier one layer instead, which would eliminate some of the links to the money site, but arguably add link juice anyway...and maybe make the job a little easier, since the pyramids pointing at the web 2 layer don't need to have articles as well written or spun...

    btw, just got an email pitch from this site - http://rankyourlisting.com/seo-package-deals/link-beast/ - anyone heard of them before?





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